Going to university does not broaden the mind • Hacker News Board

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#31

Post by chasing » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:42 AM UTC

all2 wrote: post #17

chasing wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that’s the polar opposite of my experience (the “lacking a questioning mind” bit). Maybe you’re in the wrong program or studying a major that doesn’t fit your intellectual needs? (Added later...) I don’t know what you’re studying. And I know philosophy and fine arts programs get shat on sometimes, but one thing those subjects allow (when taught properly) is a very, very deep questioning and thoughtfulness toward…

I was in Engineering, then Applied Math, now in computer science. I don't do well in university style math classes. It takes me a long time working through something to understand what is happening (and why - the why of a thing is one of the first questions I ask when I'm learning something new). It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak…

Ask your professor questions, even if it feels weird to you. Go deep! Good professors and people truly interested in their fields of study will want to get into the nitty gritty with you — oftentimes the reason they can’t in class is more practical than anything: Lack of time, presumption of disinterest from students, etc. I have taught classes at universities and I’m always super-excited when students stick around wanting to talk more after class. It’s a sign that you’ve connected.

Maybe take a good literature or philosophy class if your university offers. They won’t help you understand CS (most likely — although some weird parallels can crop up), but they’ll expand your mind. If you let them!

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#32

Post by iandev » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:43 AM UTC

The title is a bit sensational. The bigger picture is in the first paragraph.

> However, it was not the case that university broadened minds. Rather, work seemed to narrow them.

Basically, going to university doesn't make your mind broader, but not going to university does result in a narrower mind.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#33

Post by chongli » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:43 AM UTC

all2 wrote: post #17

chasing wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that’s the polar opposite of my experience (the “lacking a questioning mind” bit). Maybe you’re in the wrong program or studying a major that doesn’t fit your intellectual needs? (Added later...) I don’t know what you’re studying. And I know philosophy and fine arts programs get shat on sometimes, but one thing those subjects allow (when taught properly) is a very, very deep questioning and thoughtfulness toward…

I was in Engineering, then Applied Math, now in computer science. I don't do well in university style math classes. It takes me a long time working through something to understand what is happening (and why - the why of a thing is one of the first questions I ask when I'm learning something new). It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak…

It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak up during a lecture.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you're anything like me, you hold yourself to a higher standard when it comes to understanding a concept. A lot of people I know (I'm in second year math) do way better than me on exams but can't even explain some of the basic concepts in the courses, like:

* what is a basis?

* what does it really mean to diagonalize a matrix?

They've mastered the on-paper calculations but haven't put any thought into the deeper meaning of these concepts. When I try to explain they give me an odd look, as if to ask why anyone would care about these things. Are we raising an entire generation of Clever Hanses? [1]

I think the problem with university is that it's become too closely correlated with economic and social status. Or perhaps it's always been that way, though in the past it was not so much a cause of status but an effect.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#34

Post by nixpulvis » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:43 AM UTC

heyitsguay wrote: post #29

beaner wrote: post #3

Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.

There is a huge diversity of thought in university graduates. The extreme rightward shift in conservative mindset in the US over the past two decades means that everybody left of "maybe owning slaves is ok" gets uniformly labeled "liberal" or "leftist" in 2018.

I'm a hard liberal, but these days I feel like a conservative. I'm sure I too have been changing in ways, but it's true the buckets have gotten too large and far apart.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#35

Post by shanghaiaway » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:45 AM UTC

iandev wrote: post #32

The title is a bit sensational. The bigger picture is in the first paragraph. > However, it was not the case that university broadened minds. Rather, work seemed to narrow them. Basically, going to university doesn't make your mind broader, but not going to university does result in a narrower mind.

Wrong. You're misreading

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#36

Post by simonsarris » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:46 AM UTC

tmh88j wrote: post #20

cm2012 wrote: post #12

I wish this was more common knowledge.

Is going to university to "broaden the mind" a common sentiment? Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career, which unfortunately doesn't seem to hold as much weight these days for a growing number of fields.

> Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career,

Really? In the USA, every single time I get into a discussion of the pros and cons of college with friends (or this week family) it starts out "they need to in order to get a good job!" and end with "well... how are they going to become a more well rounded person if they don't go?"

It's like clockwork, the unavoidable striking of midnight when they toss the ROI premise for the broaden the mind premise.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#37

Post by ikeboy » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:47 AM UTC

heyitsguay wrote: post #29

beaner wrote: post #3

Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.

There is a huge diversity of thought in university graduates. The extreme rightward shift in conservative mindset in the US over the past two decades means that everybody left of "maybe owning slaves is ok" gets uniformly labeled "liberal" or "leftist" in 2018.

Unless your definition of slaves includes all workers under capitalist regimes, this is wrong. Plenty of conservatives don't think slavery is acceptable.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#38

Post by nyolfen » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:48 AM UTC

shoo wrote: post #18

beaner wrote: post #3

Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.

Jeff Schmidt's book "Disciplined Minds" is a great read about this kind of thing -- http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ Here's some discussion from a review of Disciplined Minds by Brian Martin: > Jeff Schmidt provides an answer in his book Disciplined Minds: professionals, including teachers, are selected and molded to have politically and intellectually subordinate attitudes, thereby making their creative energies…

> He cites opinion polls taken during the Vietnam war showing that support for the war was greater among those with more higher education.

ie, people whose peers and children were less likely to be drafted.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#39

Post by shanghaiaway » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:49 AM UTC

chasing wrote: post #14

all2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I know (I'm in university) can recite facts rather easily, they understand the theory and practice relatively well. What they seem to lack (what most people I meet seem to lack) is questions and a questioning mind.

Wow, that’s the polar opposite of my experience (the “lacking a questioning mind” bit). Maybe you’re in the wrong program or studying a major that doesn’t fit your intellectual needs? (Added later...) I don’t know what you’re studying. And I know philosophy and fine arts programs get shat on sometimes, but one thing those subjects allow (when taught properly) is a very, very deep questioning and thoughtfulness toward…

Being a Marxist in art school is not being questioning.

Being a Marxist in business school would be, as would being a libertarian in art school.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#40

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 2:52 AM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #37

heyitsguay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge diversity of thought in university graduates. The extreme rightward shift in conservative mindset in the US over the past two decades means that everybody left of "maybe owning slaves is ok" gets uniformly labeled "liberal" or "leftist" in 2018.

Unless your definition of slaves includes all workers under capitalist regimes, this is wrong. Plenty of conservatives don't think slavery is acceptable.

I've never run into anyone that did.