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The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

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Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#101

Post by nerder92 »

intopieces wrote: post #36
grardb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly come to that conclusion? > The military is known for being a bastion of sexism, but I had a worse experience at Amazon. > . . . the managers do not get any sort of break or lunch. Most of us just never ate. Everyone is on their feet for 12 hours a day. > Associates got a 30-minute lunch break, two 15-minute breaks, and an additional 15 minutes of “time off tasks.” Working 12 hours per day with…

Will you be more specific on the moral aspect here? Because from the article, it seems like the individuals working in the warehouse are compensated at a rate they agreed to (not being cheated of wages), are safe (no unsafe work practices are revealed here), and are given clear guidelines about their work tasks and standards (not being fired for discriminatory reasons). I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, so…

> I just want to know what Amazon would have to do to become moral

1. 8h/day max

2. double pay extra work and limit the maximum amount to +3h

3. not 'monitoring' bathroom breaks

4. not fire people on the spot, give them warnings and help them improve

5. don't use metrics as a weapon agains them, instead build programs that help improvements

6. let workers to pack seated as well (to not stay 8h on their feet)

7. hire more occasional workers for very peak days (ie: BF, CM)

8. Not fire for sick leaves nor holidays leaves

9. Not fire for taking holidays during BF

This are the first 9 thing that i can come out with.

It's interesting for me anyway how many of the things related to Unions and workers rights the are at the center of the debate in the US now, are either illegal or totally unacceptable in EU.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#102

Post by throwaway5752 »

sergiosgc wrote: post #71
unreal37 wrote: post #60

"Jeff Bezos is obscenely rich, and in any moral society, he would not have that much money." There's the rub. Buried near the bottom. The guy thinks people should not be allowed to be too rich.

> The guy thinks people should not be allowed to be too rich. Or the fact that people get that rich points to a systemic flaw in the system. Bezos earns 4 million per hour, no matter if he's asleep or awake. It's pretty wild to assume he personally creates that much value. The only other justification is that society is distributing wealth in a skewed fashion. The fact that capitalism is the best resource allocating…

"Bezos earns 4 million per hour, no matter if he's asleep or awake"

That is false. It was based on the appreciation of his Amazon stock at a cherry-picked moment in time. He's probably been losing millions per hour lately. In reality, his total compensation is less than $2M and his salary is less than $100K.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#103

Post by philwelch »

random314 wrote: post #91
School-Cotton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, forget about the US. Is there any non-capitalist country doing as well as, say, Ireland?

Of all the capitalist countries you could pick you picked Ireland? With a higher per capita income than USA. Sounds less than random. If Capitalism is such magic why not pick Haiti? Its a small country with a primary trading partner - capitalist USA! Is China capitalist or communist? That's the country that has lifted most people out of poverty. If you really want to pick a typical capitalist country - pick India. It…

> If you are looking for clear A/B test examples where 2 exactly similar populations existed and one was treated with capitalism and the other with socialism, then you wont find any.

I can name two: Germany and Korea.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#104

Post by philwelch »

mbrumlow wrote: post #74
tomjakubowski wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Why the sarcasm? That the person who has worked through ostensibly "torturous" military working conditions, is now complaining about their private sector job, only strengthens their complaints in my eyes.

It could also bring in question the current skill level of our armed foecses. If a manager job makinking 80k a year with the major complaints bring -- taking orders -- giving orders -- bening on feet for 14 hours -- and no real designated lunch time, then I am not sure how well our armed foecses are going to do in a actual war -- which is sort of what we keep them around for... Or Vox is just a flame bait instablishm…

This guy was in the Air Force, which is generally considered the softest of the military branches.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#105

Post by mbrumlow »

philwelch wrote: post #104
mbrumlow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also bring in question the current skill level of our armed foecses. If a manager job makinking 80k a year with the major complaints bring -- taking orders -- giving orders -- bening on feet for 14 hours -- and no real designated lunch time, then I am not sure how well our armed foecses are going to do in a actual war -- which is sort of what we keep them around for... Or Vox is just a flame bait instablishm…

This guy was in the Air Force, which is generally considered the softest of the military branches.

I guess he gets a pass then.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#106

Post by SpecialistEMT »

MRD85 wrote: post #90
drharby wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, its not. They picked up military vets because they understand the nature of communicating and effecting mission needs when they are performed under difficult circumstances. No one active duty yells at people like a drill sergeant outside of a training environment, except marines bc rah

Anecdotally, I've been in the Army close to 10 years now and I cannot recall the last time I heard yelling in a non-jovial or non-combat manner. I've also had multiple experiences where people were stunned after I how I reacted in difficult circumstances. I can definitely see how certain employers would value these traits.

Sorry you've been in the army

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#107

Post by gergles »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #92
xt00 wrote: post #33

Let’s say the workers unionize as the guy they interviewed suggests, what is the result? Basically they will push to change the system so that people don’t have to work as hard, it’s harder to fire people and have a seniority system. It’s quite possible that it would be better for the workers in that case but I do wonder if amazon could bypass a lot of these issues by just saying that people can’t work more than say…

"Basically they will push to change the system so that people don’t have to work as hard, it’s harder to fire people and have a seniority system." Costco is a union company that's like a walk-in version of Amazon warehouse invented before Amazon. They pay workers well, give them bonuses, and so on. Company makes around $100 billion a year. If trying to imagine unionized Amazon, walk into a Costco noting how the worke…

Only around 8% of Costco's workforce is unionized. Costco is not, by any stretch, a 'union company'.

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/03/19/even-costc...

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#108

Post by nickpsecurity »

Kephael wrote: post #100
nickpsecurity wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Basically they will push to change the system so that people don’t have to work as hard, it’s harder to fire people and have a seniority system." Costco is a union company that's like a walk-in version of Amazon warehouse invented before Amazon. They pay workers well, give them bonuses, and so on. Company makes around $100 billion a year. If trying to imagine unionized Amazon, walk into a Costco noting how the worke…

Amazon is a non-union company and they have almost single-handedly destroyed physical retail in the Western world. Amazon has created immense value for consumers and shareholders, Jeff Bezos would not be the richest person in the world if Amazon was not good at what they do. Costco hasn't innovated in decades, if it all.

I was a big fan of Amazon till I saw the behind-the-scenes cost. I agree totally Costco sucks at innovation. They missed huge opportunities. I got a few more ideas. Might try to sell them to them.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#109

Post by tmd83 »

Kephael wrote: post #100
nickpsecurity wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Basically they will push to change the system so that people don’t have to work as hard, it’s harder to fire people and have a seniority system." Costco is a union company that's like a walk-in version of Amazon warehouse invented before Amazon. They pay workers well, give them bonuses, and so on. Company makes around $100 billion a year. If trying to imagine unionized Amazon, walk into a Costco noting how the worke…

Amazon is a non-union company and they have almost single-handedly destroyed physical retail in the Western world. Amazon has created immense value for consumers and shareholders, Jeff Bezos would not be the richest person in the world if Amazon was not good at what they do. Costco hasn't innovated in decades, if it all.

Is that a good thing for real? From what I heard Amazon no longer will have lowest price on things. So essentially isn't this a big bait and switch strategy. I do thing in the long run Amazon's near monopoly on things will come back to bite customers as they will destroy the competition. The example of co-mingling of stock is one example. So much customer harm and fraud and they still do nothing because customers still buy from they for comfort. Any smaller company would have destroyed doing that.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#110

Post by onetimemanytime »

rchaud wrote: post #64
onetimemanytime wrote: post #48

>> The former Amazon employee, a US Air Force veteran, requested anonymity for fear of professional repercussions....I was an area manager, inside a new facility that had about 1,000 associates. I oversaw the packers, managing about 55 associates. My salary was $80,000...I said I wouldn’t accept anything less, since I had a master’s. Oh yeah, anonymous. People want their packages the next day or before Christmas. Ama…

> Amazon has no problems finding workers, or else they'd pay $30 an hour. There isn't a market solution for every problem. Labor rights abuses are rampant in apparel manufacturing. Are those problems "not serious" enough because people continue to pursue employment there?

OK, fine. Here I have a job to clean my pub's bathroom. It's a messy job as anyone can guess. Should the person hired drag my name on social media because it was smelly, messy etc after he agreed to take the job for the agreed fee?

Hard jobs exists, but people get compensated for the long hours, hard work, smell or whatever.

what is your solution, should Amazon shut down, pay them more or what? Kids want their packages before 12/24

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