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The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

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Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#41

Post by n4r9 »

Alex63 wrote: post #35
hedvig wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that its specific to Amazon but more generally comes from a core ideology of abiding by concepts of free market rules to the exclusion of concepts of humanity.

Just to be clear, in this case "free market rules" include: 1. Most customers choose to buy from the seller with the lowest price. 2. Employees are free to leave their employment if they find the conditions intolerable. Which of these rules do you want to change?

Sure the issue is when employees don't feel like they can leave, because they can't afford a period of unemployment and don't have the time/energy to seek new employment whilst working 12 hour shifts and potentially supporting a family.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#42

Post by krapp »

amelius wrote: post #38
grardb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly come to that conclusion? > The military is known for being a bastion of sexism, but I had a worse experience at Amazon. > . . . the managers do not get any sort of break or lunch. Most of us just never ate. Everyone is on their feet for 12 hours a day. > Associates got a 30-minute lunch break, two 15-minute breaks, and an additional 15 minutes of “time off tasks.” Working 12 hours per day with…

Still, Amazon is probably treating their workers better than the average Chinese electronics factory or Indian textile company.

And every employee is being treated better than chattel slaves, but that doesn't mean only chattel slaves have a reason to complain.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#43

Post by amelius »

krapp wrote: post #42
amelius wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, Amazon is probably treating their workers better than the average Chinese electronics factory or Indian textile company.

And every employee is being treated better than chattel slaves, but that doesn't mean only chattel slaves have a reason to complain.

I didn't mean to imply anything like that, but instead that we shouldn't fool ourselves when we use our electronic devices or put on our clothes. It's not like bad work conditions are a new thing. We have been profiting from them for a long time. It's always easier to look the other way and find a scapegoat.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#44

Post by School-Cotton »

n4r9 wrote: post #41
Alex63 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, in this case "free market rules" include: 1. Most customers choose to buy from the seller with the lowest price. 2. Employees are free to leave their employment if they find the conditions intolerable. Which of these rules do you want to change?

Sure the issue is when employees don't feel like they can leave, because they can't afford a period of unemployment and don't have the time/energy to seek new employment whilst working 12 hour shifts and potentially supporting a family.

How is that Amazon’s fault or problem?

Is your issue with Amazon, or with the system of capitalism in general? If the latter, why are people criticizing Amazon specifically?

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#45

Post by Quarrelsome »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #4

This article indicts Amazon of the following cruelties: - Expects workers to work compensated overtime during a busy period - Tracks worker performance - Expects people to take only their scheduled breaks, and writes them up if they're MIA for 30+ minutes - Requires workers to show up and work during their scheduled work hours The humanity! And this poor guy, working a non-specialized manager position attainable with…

you get in trouble if you need to piss. You work 6 days a week for 10 hours a day on your feet. These are working conditions of developing nations.

WE'VE BEEN HERE, it doesn't work. Why the fuck are they still subjecting people to this shit? I thought we were better than this.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#46

Post by dre85 »

heptathorp wrote: post #37
cloakandswagger wrote: post #4

This article indicts Amazon of the following cruelties: - Expects workers to work compensated overtime during a busy period - Tracks worker performance - Expects people to take only their scheduled breaks, and writes them up if they're MIA for 30+ minutes - Requires workers to show up and work during their scheduled work hours The humanity! And this poor guy, working a non-specialized manager position attainable with…

Don't forget that this time of year is now ruined for this manager. But not enough to stop them from shopping on Amazon during Black Friday and contributing to those human costs. "I boycott Prime Day, but I do shop on Amazon during Black Friday. I feel bad about it, but at the same time, I don’t think me not shopping will get Amazon to change its practices."

I also found that to be an awesome little tidbit. Just human nature I guess... "I wish it wasn't like this! But it's the most convenient so click click click!"

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#47

Post by School-Cotton »

basic1 wrote: post #23
cloakandswagger wrote: post #4

This article indicts Amazon of the following cruelties: - Expects workers to work compensated overtime during a busy period - Tracks worker performance - Expects people to take only their scheduled breaks, and writes them up if they're MIA for 30+ minutes - Requires workers to show up and work during their scheduled work hours The humanity! And this poor guy, working a non-specialized manager position attainable with…

Capitalism has failed.

Can you point to many examples of non-capitalist societies where conditions are better for most people than in the United States?

From my perspective, capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system in history.

By what metric has it “failed” ? Because the bottom few percent live in shitty conditions? Before capitalism, the bottom 90% of people were illiterate subsistence farmers.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#48

Post by onetimemanytime »

>> The former Amazon employee, a US Air Force veteran, requested anonymity for fear of professional repercussions....I was an area manager, inside a new facility that had about 1,000 associates. I oversaw the packers, managing about 55 associates. My salary was $80,000...I said I wouldn’t accept anything less, since I had a master’s.

Oh yeah, anonymous.

People want their packages the next day or before Christmas. Amazon is paying them overtime and more for Black Friday. I mean this is the job, like a job that requires you start at 12am. Tiring sure, but weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. Amazon has no problems finding workers, or else they'd pay $30 an hour

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#49

Post by jniedrauer »

intopieces wrote: post #36
grardb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly come to that conclusion? > The military is known for being a bastion of sexism, but I had a worse experience at Amazon. > . . . the managers do not get any sort of break or lunch. Most of us just never ate. Everyone is on their feet for 12 hours a day. > Associates got a 30-minute lunch break, two 15-minute breaks, and an additional 15 minutes of “time off tasks.” Working 12 hours per day with…

Will you be more specific on the moral aspect here? Because from the article, it seems like the individuals working in the warehouse are compensated at a rate they agreed to (not being cheated of wages), are safe (no unsafe work practices are revealed here), and are given clear guidelines about their work tasks and standards (not being fired for discriminatory reasons). I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, so…

> it seems like the individuals working in the warehouse are compensated at a rate they agreed to (not being cheated of wages)

This argument implies that workers are on equal footing with employers when negotiating for wages. You forget that not all industries are like ours.

We've created a world full of pointless cruelty. "How long should the breaks be" is the wrong question to ask. Progress, to me, would look like a lot more workers doing a lot less work, and being compensated at a level which gives them financial security. Unpleasant work takes a toll on people. 8 hours should not be the goal, it should be the maximum.

Re: The human costs of Black Friday, explained by a former Amazon warehouse manager

#50

Post by random314 »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #4

This article indicts Amazon of the following cruelties: - Expects workers to work compensated overtime during a busy period - Tracks worker performance - Expects people to take only their scheduled breaks, and writes them up if they're MIA for 30+ minutes - Requires workers to show up and work during their scheduled work hours The humanity! And this poor guy, working a non-specialized manager position attainable with…

>This article indicts Amazon of the following cruelties:

You posted a completely false list of complaints after this

> And this poor guy, working a non-specialized manager position attainable with just a high school degree, was only paid a meager $80,000 a year!

This is a misleading statement focused on hiding the fact that the area manager being interviewed has an MBA. Moreover the manager never complained about his salary. He complained about how he was forced to fire hourly workers and had to be on his feet for 14 hours a day for several weeks unless he was willing to be fired.

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