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Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#81

Post by chris_wot »

conanbatt wrote: post #72
chris_wot wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in Australia we prevented childcare payments for those who conscientiously object. Religious grounds aren’t accepted. It’s called “no jab, no pay”.[1] It has arrested the slide in vaccinations, and in fact increased the vaccination rate by a few percent. We also have strongly endured that groups like the Australian Vaccination Network are curtailed. They are now called the Australian Vaccination-risks Netwo…

Refusing childcare payments is just another flavor of mandatory, enforced through the tax system. A responsbility approach would be a health insurance on third parties.

That is hardly responsible. We have free health care in Australia, and landing someone in hospital but paying for it because of the actions of another party is neither desirable nor sensible.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#82

Post by occamrazor »

bane wrote: post #57
shepardrtc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickenpox can be deadly: https://www.cdc.gov/features/preventchickenpox/index.html Please read up on diseases before you try to infect your children with them.

When I was a child, and for generations preceding me, it was very common (almost universal) to seek out children with Chickenpox and to get your children infected with it (something like 95% of all adults alive today went through this ritual). The reasoning being that the childhood version of it is relatively mild while getting it fresh as an adult was potentially deadly. I think when I was growing up the guidance wa…

You are right, up to two decades ago it was normal, and indeed a good practice, to try exposing kids to varicella when they are young.

Now that there is a safe vaccine, the better choice is vaccination because

1. Varicella is almost always mild in children, but in rare cases it can be dangerous (and these rare cases are more frequent and more severe of adverse reactions to the vaccine), and

2. Vaccination reduces the chances of hepes zoster (shingles) in old age, in comparison to having chickenpox.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#83

Post by mcculley »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #66
mcculley wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it only protects based on "spreading" of disease? Yes. If there are fewer carriers around, the unvaccinated person is at lower risk. A virus depends on carriers to reproduce itself. > Wouldn't this mean that the only people who are at risk are other unvaccinated kids? (because the vaccinated ones are protected already?) Yes. I think maybe the part that is evading you is that this is a game theory problem. One ne…

> A virus depends on carriers to reproduce itself. Other comments state that anyone can carry the virus, even vaccinated people though... > One needn't vaccinate every person in order to stop the contagion. My original question needed to be clarified, forgive me for confusing things. My question was about protection more the "spreading". Shouldn't a disease only spread to unvaccinated people? And that all vaccinated…

> Shouldn't a disease only spread to unvaccinated people?

Yes, and there are, by necessity and previously discussed, always going to be some unvaccinated people. In some cases this is because the vaccine cannot be administered until a certain age. In some cases, it is because the vaccine fails. A small amount of "free riders" can work. It is when parents put too many free riders into a population that it crosses a tipping point.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#84

Post by nitrogen »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #63
strictnein wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never seen any data on this Google exists. Stop moving goalposts and asking endless questions. Measles: 97% effective https://www.cdc.gov/measles/vaccination.html

That wasn't the question I asked, I asked this: "...what is the failure rate?" I didn't ask what the "success" rate was, and there's a huge difference because without details 97% is a nearly meaningless number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem

100% - 97% is 3%.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#85

Post by conanbatt »

chris_wot wrote: post #81
conanbatt wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refusing childcare payments is just another flavor of mandatory, enforced through the tax system. A responsbility approach would be a health insurance on third parties.

That is hardly responsible. We have free health care in Australia, and landing someone in hospital but paying for it because of the actions of another party is neither desirable nor sensible.

Why wouldn't it be responsible?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#87

Post by howard941 »

ryanmercer wrote: post #86

Wait, is there a chickenpox vaccination now? Sure wasn't 20-something years ago when I had it, on my birthday, ugh.

Yes. See the Prevention section at https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2018/infectious-dise...

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#89

Post by DanBC »

clort wrote: post #56
cmurf wrote: post #18

This was chickenpox. Imagine if it were rubella. Or polio. They can't be physically or economically coerced by a government because of the religious exemption, so far that's the law of the land as the Supreme Court conservative shift gave us the Hobby Lobby case. So there's nothing to do about it legally in the near term, short of something so horrific that even the conservative court reverses itself somehow. But I w…

You might be able to discriminate against potential employees based on their obvious stupidity, but you might be on less certain ground when they claim it is a religious viewpoint?

Which religions forbid immunisation?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#90

Post by DanBC »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #11
grzm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity > "In a population in which a large number of individuals are immune, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted, which stops or slows the spread of disease. The greater the proportion of individuals in a community who are immune, the smaller the probability that those who are not immune will come into contact with an infectious individual." https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

This is my point. Who cares how many people in the US don't get vaccines if the "vast majority" do?

Because herd immunity requires X% of the population to be immunised, and anti-vaccination parents bring the number of vaccinated children below X%.
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