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China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

independent.co.uk

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Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#191

Post by iliketosleep »

Kaveren wrote: post #118

China is approaching a nightmarish dystopian society, if it hasn't reached that already. I'm glad I live in a country where I can spend however much money I feel like on video games without being targeted by an oppressive government. You just have to love a country where you can be murdered by the government for selling marijuana, yet if you abstain from alcohol for religious reasons you are an enemy of the state and…

I'm afraid that by the time people wake up to this, it will already be too late. Authoritarianism backed by high tech is a permanent nightmare come true. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems unstoppable - not enough people seem to really care. It's a weakness of human psychology, we are too caught up in the short-term, but in this case the long-term consequences will be terminal.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#192

Post by Just_Smith »

will_brown wrote: post #181
Just_Smith wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit surprised that people in this thread don't seem to understand the parallels between social and economic status. It's not some grand revelation either - it's pretty much common knowledge. There's obviously a distinct difference between these two systems, but to say "China's social credit system has nothing in common with America's financial credit system" is pretty ignorant to how important having good credi…

And I tried to acknowledge the difference in my original post, by saying it’s “just a different way to skin the cat.” But that’s why I added the edit, because I had to acknowledge people in the US love the credit system like people in China will love the social credit system. That’s unfortunately probably the most important parallel the people welcome the systems.

I agree - so long as financial credit comes with perks, people are going to be apologists for its flaws. Now that I work in software, keeping good credit is a non-issue. However, when I was making less than $10k/yr, it was the bane of my existence.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#193

Post by seanmcdirmid »

liftbigweights wrote: post #190
lifeformed wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe people keep equating these two systems. While there are similarities, one is a financial rating and the other is a social rating. The credit system has a lot of issues but it just does what it says on the tin, measuring the same credit card metrics, and had been around for a while without much change. The social rating system seeps into every aspect of a person's life and had no limits for expansion.…

> While there are similarities, one is a financial rating and the other is a social rating. They are one and the same. The "financial" rating affects where you can live ( try getting an apartment or a mortgage ) and where you work. Sure it isn't as draconian as the chinese version but it's pervades much of your life.

No. One rates your ability to take on debt by how you handled previous debts, the other involves rating your amount of freedom according to a fuzzy social score. Very different....

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#194

Post by tepidandroid »

skrebbel wrote: post #113

I'm disgusted by the comments in this thread that go "culture!", "tradition!", "philosophy!" to explain why this really isn't that much of a problem. So because Chinese rulers have oppressed and mistreated their people for so long that their methods have become ingrained in the national psyche, it's somehow more OK? George Orwell predicted that "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human f…

> A non-stop tradition of oppression doesn't somehow make new oppression less bad.

The Chinese government abused and oppressed their people so hard for so long they accidentally lifted 740 million people out of abject, 3rd world poverty. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#195

Post by simonh »

will_brown wrote: post #33

Well here in the US we have an actual credit system in place. And since basic necessities are often dependent on credit rating (employment; housing purchaes ; rentals; vehicle financing/lease) it’s pretty dystopian. Not to mention for nearly 20 years now we have had secret no fly lists (no due process to get on or off) and even secret kill lists (no due process), I think it’s just another way to skin the cat, and may…

The moment I saw the headline I just knew there’d be a “it’s just as bad over here” post in the thread somewhere. Thanks for not disappointing me. There are different ways to approach this though.

There’s “what China is doing is no big deal, we do it all as well so why are we hypocritically making a fuss?”.

Then there’s “this is appalling and should be condemned absolutely, but let’s be careful here because we’re already exposed to some problems like this ourselves”.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#196

Post by wozmirek »

paganel wrote: post #176
wozmirek wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I agree with you m8. I'm terrified with the surveillance stuff. I'd exchange then my "safe(r)" with "more sense of "safety"" (double quote deliberate). Side note, that colleague originates from Bucharest? Just wondering if it's the same with my wife who feels unsafe in Berlin while she feels safer in Krakow.

> Side note, that colleague originates from Bucharest? Yeap, she has lived her entire life until this summer in Bucharest (she's approaching 30 now), and she hasn't grow up and live in the "posh" parts of town, so to speak. > Just wondering if it's the same with my wife who feels unsafe in Berlin while she feels safer in Krakow. It's funny because said colleague (and friend) has moved out to London for a Polish guy,…

I'd chalk it up to the stress of moving. I used to live in US and then moved to Germany. It's normal.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#198

Post by C1sc0cat »

justinclift wrote: post #109
C1sc0cat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the new FILTH aka Failed in London, Try Hong Kong

Well, the UK itself seems to be "Failing in London" these days. ;)

Well the compete omnishambles that the current generation of politicians seem to have created I would probably agree with you

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#199

Post by iliketosleep »

tepidandroid wrote: post #194
skrebbel wrote: post #113

I'm disgusted by the comments in this thread that go "culture!", "tradition!", "philosophy!" to explain why this really isn't that much of a problem. So because Chinese rulers have oppressed and mistreated their people for so long that their methods have become ingrained in the national psyche, it's somehow more OK? George Orwell predicted that "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human f…

> A non-stop tradition of oppression doesn't somehow make new oppression less bad. The Chinese government abused and oppressed their people so hard for so long they accidentally lifted 740 million people out of abject, 3rd world poverty. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

I think you're missing the big picture. Just ask yourself these two questions: 1. How did they get into "abject, 3rd world poverty" in the first place? 2. Is their current policy direction closer to the era of Deng or that of Mao?

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#200

Post by icebraining »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #193
liftbigweights wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While there are similarities, one is a financial rating and the other is a social rating. They are one and the same. The "financial" rating affects where you can live ( try getting an apartment or a mortgage ) and where you work. Sure it isn't as draconian as the chinese version but it's pervades much of your life.

No. One rates your ability to take on debt by how you handled previous debts, the other involves rating your amount of freedom according to a fuzzy social score. Very different....

How is getting an apartment "taking on debt"?
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