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Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

nytimes.com

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Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#41

Post by zhte415 »

EZ-E wrote: post #14

Looking at what China is doing is gonna give them more ammunition. I used to love digital payment but I'm getting increasingly wary of it. Look what big private companies did with our data, what will happen when they have all your purchase history and when your daily life depends on them approving your transactions? It's too much power. Look at the many horror stories of people getting their money locked out in Paypa…

I agree. Am in China.

Some caveat:

The cash is not placed with the mobile payment provider. Your bank card(s) are linked. Making a mobile payment prompts you enter the password setup for bank-to-mobile payment.

You can pre-deposit money onto you mobile wallet. The same prompt pops-up, but with your mobile avatar instead of the bank logo. That's the UX done simply. Personally, I keep an air-gap of sorts, linking mobile payment to an account I know only has 2000 Yuan or less on it.

There are several methods of payment, most that I don't like, in terms of information being spread.

You can 'scan them'. There's a static QR code printed and laminated, that gets scanned. Funds a transferred.

There are a few plays on this where a static QR code from a 3rd party provider has a click-through app to gather identity information. You pay the same price, they learn a little about your payment size and time-of-day.

For larger companies, they scan you. This is far more worrying for me. You present your phone's wallet barcode/QR combo (dynamically generated for each time it's opened, one-use) and the store scan that to withdraw funds. Their transactions solutions provider is now matching one's purchases against one's identity. Same is true of Didi (China's Uber). A complete identity is build.

A similar option to the above is restaurants. Each table has an individual QR code to scan. Sit down, scan, read the menu, select what you want, the food is served to your table a few minutes later. That's not a restaurant experience for me, with waiting staff simply being a dish carrier.

So I pay with cash. Anywhere other than mass-information-harvesters are happy to take it still, and the prices are the same.

I feel the fake Uber v Didi taxi war where only mobile payment was acceptable was a big, and orchestrated [read: funded] play by mobile payment providers (fare discounts could reach 50%+ vs taxi) to ensure critical momentum.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#42

Post by TulliusCicero »

Orphis wrote: post #36

The major issue I see regarding a cash-free society (which I am part of by living in Sweden) is that it puts a big burden on tourists who have to pay a huge amount of fees when using their own cards in a different currency. It is also a bit similar for expats who, under certain conditions, can't apply for a Swedish person number (think SSN) and thus get a fully activated bank account. No bank account? Good luck doing…

Most probably would pay similar fees if they were converting to local cash currency, too.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#43

Post by willvarfar »

Anecdotally, I don't know of any Swedish consumers saying "not so fast!". Even the pensioners I know do their parking with the kommun's parking app and love swish etc.

Myself, I last used a banknote... at least over a year ago. I think I did use some coins (which luckily I still had in the glovebox of my car) in an old-fashioned parking machine recently.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#44

Post by zbrox »

Orphis wrote: post #36

The major issue I see regarding a cash-free society (which I am part of by living in Sweden) is that it puts a big burden on tourists who have to pay a huge amount of fees when using their own cards in a different currency. It is also a bit similar for expats who, under certain conditions, can't apply for a Swedish person number (think SSN) and thus get a fully activated bank account. No bank account? Good luck doing…

I for once love Swedish cashless society and have rarely been inconvenienced by it. People close to me have had issues due to not having a personnummer (thanks Migrationsverket). But then there are things like Revolut for example or Transferwise. This is how we got around it. Although for stuff like rent you're fresh out of luck if it's not second hand. And the fees for foreigners are for converting currency. Those you pay anyways regardless if you're converting cash or each of your electronic payments. I've also seen so called blackouts that people portray as the boogiemen and the result was not being able to pay for a couple of minutes. But I've also seen those with cash when electronic checkout systems were not functioning and the cashier could simply not print your receipt and take your cash money. And growing up in a more dangerous neighbourhood as a kid I can tell you all about what cash on you or in your house means :)

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#45

Post by TulliusCicero »

crummy wrote: post #37

Does anyone understand why cash is so common in Germany (or why cards are so rarely accepted)? I didn't expect it from a modern first world European country.

Germans are sort of reticent or skeptical about a lot of modern consumer technology, I've found.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#46

Post by kungtotte »

willvarfar wrote: post #43

Anecdotally, I don't know of any Swedish consumers saying "not so fast!". Even the pensioners I know do their parking with the kommun's parking app and love swish etc. Myself, I last used a banknote... at least over a year ago. I think I did use some coins (which luckily I still had in the glovebox of my car) in an old-fashioned parking machine recently.

Look beyond your bubble.

I use cash nearly every day and I see plenty of transactions in cash around me. It's still alive and well.

Do you live in a city?

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#49

Post by scbrg »

zmodem wrote: post #33
foldr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's the alternative? Withdrawing it from a bank branch.

Many Swedish bank branches (most at this point?) don't have any cash.

Most, by a wide margin. I checked with my bank, and they seem to have ten offices in the whole country with cash. I happen to live "only" 7 km or so from one (and I live in the center of a big (by Swedish standards) city), but many would have some 500 km of travelling to do to get to one of these offices.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#50

Post by HappySweeney »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #35
mtgx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuing to use cash should be a national security issue, just like for instance, using open source software is starting to be in some places. Any country that wants to get rid of cash is just making it easy for future rival nations to cripple its economy with a hack or two.

But why couldn't the government just keep cash on hand in some central location (eg. Fort Knox in USA) and in case of a total system failure have a plan to quickly distribute it across the country. I mean if Amazon can get me socks in 48 hours, I'm pretty sure the govt of nearly any 1st world country could get cash to central repositories in a matter of hours with enough planning.

This sounds like it would be a complete shitshow.
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