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Slow Software

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Re: Slow Software

#71

Post by __mifflin »

coder543 wrote: post #70
godDLL wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While running a Linux stack may still work, your Mac info is outdated by three years, at least. Macs have entered the zoo in 2015.

For practical purposes, that's not true. Macs do not allow running unsigned software by default, and no one runs antivirus on Mac, ever. So even if they were commonly being infected, which they aren't, the person above would have organizational indemnity if someone were infected because they're following industry best practices by not running antivirus on Mac. If you want, you can further restrict Macs to only App St…

> and no one runs antivirus on the Mac, ever.

Working at a large company (also not one of the famous silicon valley tech companies) and if you get a macbook, they are managed remotely and have BitDefender installed.

Re: Slow Software

#72

Post by coder543 »

__mifflin wrote: post #71
coder543 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For practical purposes, that's not true. Macs do not allow running unsigned software by default, and no one runs antivirus on Mac, ever. So even if they were commonly being infected, which they aren't, the person above would have organizational indemnity if someone were infected because they're following industry best practices by not running antivirus on Mac. If you want, you can further restrict Macs to only App St…

> and no one runs antivirus on the Mac, ever. Working at a large company (also not one of the famous silicon valley tech companies) and if you get a macbook, they are managed remotely and have BitDefender installed.

I sometimes forget how much big companies enjoy spending money. I once worked for a large company where every developer was issued a full copy of Microsoft Office, even though most of them worked inside a fullscreen Linux VM all day. Outlook was the only piece of Office that my coworkers and I used, and I would have been happier using a tab open to a webmail provider inside the VM than having to use Outlook to connect to Exchange. That was far from the only unnecessary software they paid for. Why use Git when you can pay for Perforce!

Re: Slow Software

#73

Post by jaxn »

coder543 wrote: post #62
silviogutierrez wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently picking the OS stack for all machines at my company. All guidance, even people I respect, point towards antivirus protection. Yet I lean towards nixing that. I know it's hugely ineffective. In fact, it opens up holes of its own[1]. And yet... it's like scaffolding in NYC[2]. Absolutely useless[3]. But if you are all for removing it, and a brick falls and hurts someone, heads will roll. Quite a quandary…

Microsoft Defender typically doesn't hurt performance or security much. The alternative is to run Mac or Linux stacks instead of a Windows stack, of course.

Microsoft Defender destroys WSL performance unless you create exclusions.

Re: Slow Software

#74

Post by ggreer »

silviogutierrez wrote: post #57
throwaway286 wrote: post #56

I work at a large company that is not one of the famous silicon valley tech companies. One of the worst parts of working there is the heap of various enterprise anti-virus software they install on our computers. It brings huge typing and disk access latencies. Even opening files in vim with FZF is slow. I can't explain why but this makes programming so much less pleasant. I really just want to work somewhere without…

I'm currently picking the OS stack for all machines at my company. All guidance, even people I respect, point towards antivirus protection. Yet I lean towards nixing that. I know it's hugely ineffective. In fact, it opens up holes of its own[1]. And yet... it's like scaffolding in NYC[2]. Absolutely useless[3]. But if you are all for removing it, and a brick falls and hurts someone, heads will roll. Quite a quandary…

I would recommend against antivirus. If you force developers to use an annoying configuration of a specific OS, you make it much harder to hire top talent. Why would someone work at your company when they could go to Google and use their favorite Linux tools running on their favorite model ThinkPad?

It totally makes sense to lock down machines that can access production, but for development? Just let people use what they like. You'll have less work for IT, happier developers, and an easier time recruiting talent.

Re: Slow Software

#75

Post by RemarkableMan »

You will never massage and cram all the remote cruft efficiently enough to get back the responsiveness of an Apple II. Today’s software is turtles all the way down from the library to the sub-library to the JIT to the application and OS and hardware and they each need 5-25 milliseconds to even wake up. That’s before you even hit the network.

Things don’t get bad, they get worse.

Re: Slow Software

#76

Post by notduncansmith »

sb8244 wrote: post #61
ploxiln wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jira is in a league of its own. With latest stable Firefox on a Macbook Pro from 2014, I get a full 10 seconds loading time for the notifications sidebar. Every click in Jira takes between 5 and 15 seconds. It is absolutely nuts and it seems like many people just don't understand how insanely bad it is (but obviously many engineers do ;) Meanwhile my browser can load, render, and scroll a 4000 line colored diff in le…

Is your jira heavily customized? I haven't seen this level of slowness and use it daily. I know that customizations can be the root of evil on jira

And this level of open-ended configurability is why many vendors prohibit benchmarking. While Atlassian is exceptional in some regards, this is not one of them.

Re: Slow Software

#77

Post by cco »

ploxiln wrote: post #44
coder543 wrote: post #5

I think this article places too much emphasis on input devices and hardware constraints, and not enough on software architecture. JIRA doesn't really feel any faster just because your input devices are fast; the application level latency dwarfs the input latency by a large margin. I would take measurements, but JIRA prohibits benchmarking for some reason... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they're probably just trying to save everyone else…

Jira is in a league of its own. With latest stable Firefox on a Macbook Pro from 2014, I get a full 10 seconds loading time for the notifications sidebar. Every click in Jira takes between 5 and 15 seconds. It is absolutely nuts and it seems like many people just don't understand how insanely bad it is (but obviously many engineers do ;) Meanwhile my browser can load, render, and scroll a 4000 line colored diff in le…

Are you on Jira Could? I've never seen a self hosted Jira instance that slow.

Re: Slow Software

#78

Post by Moru »

robochat wrote: post #16

My least favorite type of latency is when you start typing and the application takes at least 1 - 2 seconds to catch up with you. This still happen to me often enough to be a normal occurrence on both my desktop computer and phone.

This still exists with todays computers and systems? I remember back in school (a long time ago) we had computers that was so slow it took 7 seconds for the backspace key to start doing something on some of the computers. This was in the 286 age with windows 3.11 I believe. I haven't seen it much since then. What in the world are you using to have this experience?

Re: Slow Software

#79

Post by pjmlp »

eikenberry wrote: post #60
throwaway286 wrote: post #56

I work at a large company that is not one of the famous silicon valley tech companies. One of the worst parts of working there is the heap of various enterprise anti-virus software they install on our computers. It brings huge typing and disk access latencies. Even opening files in vim with FZF is slow. I can't explain why but this makes programming so much less pleasant. I really just want to work somewhere without…

> I really just want to work somewhere without anti-virus. Not trying to be hostile.. but why aren't you? I've never worked anywhere that required anti-virus, so I know there are jobs out there that don't require it. In recent years I've gone so far as to take the stance that I won't use company computers at all, only my own, and I still haven't had any problems finding work. Unless you have strict restrictions on sw…

I worked in such companies, where you need to sign that you assume all legal consequences of a virus being introduced into the company network via your computer.

Re: Slow Software

#80

Post by viraptor »

coder543 wrote: post #72
__mifflin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and no one runs antivirus on the Mac, ever. Working at a large company (also not one of the famous silicon valley tech companies) and if you get a macbook, they are managed remotely and have BitDefender installed.

I sometimes forget how much big companies enjoy spending money. I once worked for a large company where every developer was issued a full copy of Microsoft Office, even though most of them worked inside a fullscreen Linux VM all day. Outlook was the only piece of Office that my coworkers and I used, and I would have been happier using a tab open to a webmail provider inside the VM than having to use Outlook to connec…

> every developer was issued a full copy of Microsoft Office

Enterprise volume licenses. It probably cost them less than the time/money they'd lose if you spenta few minutes trying to figure out how to open some file sent by non-devs.

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