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Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

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Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#31

Post by zaptheimpaler »

Its basically a sign of the balance of supply and demand shifting I think, and particularly a large influx of new opportunists who jumped into programming for the money but might not have the aptitude or motivation.

Companies are very, very risk-averse in hiring and they don't want to get stuck with one of those types. They overestimate the short-term risk of making a bad hire and underestimate the long-term risk of not moving fast enough or hiring enough.

Even from a purely cover-your-ass perspective, a manager who makes a bad hire will likely be blamed for not screening candidates well enough, but a manager who fails to hire enough can easily point to the "talent shortage". No one ever got fired for choosing AWS, and no one ever got fired for hiring an ex-Googler :)

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#32

Post by owens99 »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #31

Its basically a sign of the balance of supply and demand shifting I think, and particularly a large influx of new opportunists who jumped into programming for the money but might not have the aptitude or motivation. Companies are very, very risk-averse in hiring and they don't want to get stuck with one of those types. They overestimate the short-term risk of making a bad hire and underestimate the long-term risk of…

> Companies are very, very risk-averse in hiring and they don't want to get stuck with one of those types. They overestimate the short-term risk of making a bad hire and underestimate the long-term risk of not moving fast enough or hiring enough.

Actually, a bad hire is a long-term risk. Very hard to fire fast.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#33

Post by dharmab »

aphextron wrote: post #28

>I ask this because I'm 4-years-experienced as a front-end UI/interaction dev, nothing but glowing references, looking for another, similar, position (regular, not senior or lead) and have had...way too many interviews and rejections, and can't understand why companies are such sticklers for interested devs to have Every Single Box in their list of requirements checked when it would take days or a couple weeks to lea…

Don't quit your job without your next source of income secured.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#34

Post by owens99 »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #31

Its basically a sign of the balance of supply and demand shifting I think, and particularly a large influx of new opportunists who jumped into programming for the money but might not have the aptitude or motivation. Companies are very, very risk-averse in hiring and they don't want to get stuck with one of those types. They overestimate the short-term risk of making a bad hire and underestimate the long-term risk of…

> Companies are very, very risk-averse in hiring and they don't want to get stuck with one of those types. They overestimate the short-term risk of making a bad hire and underestimate the long-term risk of not moving fast enough or hiring enough.

Actually, a bad hire is a long-term risk. It’s hard to fire fast and bad hires add up. B players hire C players, as the saying goes.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#35

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tylerritchie wrote: post #29
rubicon33 wrote: post #12

False premise. There is no shortage of devs. That has been a complete fabrication, made up entirely by big tech companies, in a propaganda push to promote more and more people getting into CS. It's entirely so they can pay developers less.

There's no shortage of developers, but big tech companies are attempting to increase the supply of developers to reduce the cost of developers?

> There's no shortage of developers, but big tech companies are attempting to increase the supply of developers to reduce the cost of developers?

Open markets don't have shortages, those are caused by price controls. In a market the product is always available to the highest bidder, unless there are zero suppliers at any price which is obviously not the case here.

But "shortage" sounds like a problem that needs to be solved by some kind of external intervention, whereas "wages are high" is more of the sort of thing people like to see in the economy, and is not actually a problem at all because the high wages on their own are sufficient to attract the necessary talent to the industry.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#36

Post by aphextron »

dharmab wrote: post #33
aphextron wrote: post #28

>I ask this because I'm 4-years-experienced as a front-end UI/interaction dev, nothing but glowing references, looking for another, similar, position (regular, not senior or lead) and have had...way too many interviews and rejections, and can't understand why companies are such sticklers for interested devs to have Every Single Box in their list of requirements checked when it would take days or a couple weeks to lea…

Don't quit your job without your next source of income secured.

>Don't quit your job without your next source of income secured.

I guess this is the takeaway from a self preservation standpoint, but the alternative is worse. Spending months of your employer's time completely mentally checked out, taking sick time and vacation for interviews, pretending like you care in meetings, it's all too much. I watched that happen multiple times before I left, and it's really discourteous to the people you work with. It just seems unethical to me to remain somewhere once you've decided to leave.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#37

Post by lathiat »

dharmab wrote: post #33
aphextron wrote: post #28

>I ask this because I'm 4-years-experienced as a front-end UI/interaction dev, nothing but glowing references, looking for another, similar, position (regular, not senior or lead) and have had...way too many interviews and rejections, and can't understand why companies are such sticklers for interested devs to have Every Single Box in their list of requirements checked when it would take days or a couple weeks to lea…

Don't quit your job without your next source of income secured.

This is good advice

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#38

Post by maxk42 »

The gulf between a senior dev and the average junior is akin to the gulf between a senior dev and the average window washer. The gap is too wide between juniors and seniors.

Plus the market is flooded with junior devs. At this moment it's tough -- but not too tough -- to hire a senior dev. But juniors are a dime a dozen.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#39

Post by daze42 »

tylerritchie wrote: post #29
rubicon33 wrote: post #12

False premise. There is no shortage of devs. That has been a complete fabrication, made up entirely by big tech companies, in a propaganda push to promote more and more people getting into CS. It's entirely so they can pay developers less.

There's no shortage of developers, but big tech companies are attempting to increase the supply of developers to reduce the cost of developers?

Law of supply and demand. If supply increases but demand stays the same then the price will fall.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#40

Post by daze42 »

monocasa wrote: post #25
rubicon33 wrote: post #12

False premise. There is no shortage of devs. That has been a complete fabrication, made up entirely by big tech companies, in a propaganda push to promote more and more people getting into CS. It's entirely so they can pay developers less.

This. FAANG hires more devs than they need just to keep the rest of FAANG from getting them.

Facebook Amazon Apple N? Google?
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