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Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

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Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#41

Post by 2trill2spill »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
2trill2spill wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on where you get the electricity to charge your Tesla it could be worse than oil. But seeing as Norway gets almost all of it's electricity from renewable energy that's not the case there.

There is no electrical generation source that is worse than oil, for any electric car. Only 12-30% [1] (EDIT: replaced 1% after correction from nradov) of energy makes it to the wheels when burning petroleum to propel a vehicle forward. Your electric car will get cleaner over time (90-95% of new generation coming online each year are renewables), your petrol vehicle will burn petrol forever. [1] https://www.fuelecono…

> There is no electrical generation source that is worse than oil, for any electric car. Only 1% of energy makes it to the wheels when burning petroleum to propel a vehicle forward.

What? You say "there is no electrical generation source that is worse than oil" then say "Only 1% of energy makes it to the wheels when burning petroleum to propel a vehicle forward." A gasoline powered car is not an electrical generation source so I'm sure what your saying, especially because coal is a much dirtier source for generating electricity. Also a quick google search shows that gasoline powered vehicles have a tank to wheel efficiency around 16%[1][2] which is much higher then the 1% you stated.

And my original point was, If a electric vehicle is being charged from a dirty source like a coal plant then it can be more polluting then driving an efficient petroleum car. Coal is more polluting then Oil when burned and converting the heat to electricity is a huge hit to efficiency. Only about 30% of the energy from coal is turned into electricity. Plus you have transmission loss from getting the electricity from the power plant to the EV.

[1]: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buste...

[2]: https://matter2energy.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/wells-to-whee...

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#42

Post by kakarot »

lykr0n wrote: post #5

Texas is in a funny place. They are pumping oil like crazy, but they are building wind like crazy as well. Look at the City of Austin and the amount of renewables year over year: https://data.austintexas.gov/Utilities-and-City-Services/Gen... You can see a real-time chart of energy mix here: https://austinenergy.com/ae/about/environment/renewable-powe... Most days renewables are 50% of electricity consumes. I pay a b…

At my last apartment, I was paying only about $40/mo for 100% wind/solar. It's incredible what a little government-mandated competition can do.

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#43

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

pathseeker wrote: post #23
Kaveren wrote: post #7

I'm hopeful that America can further lessen our dependence on Saudi Arabia as much as possible through this. Alas, the alliance is based around a lot more than just oil, and the Saudi vision is to shift away from oil reliance, but I'll gladly take a chink in the armor. > "Global oil demand has so far absorbed the extra U.S. crude barrels, limiting the impact on prices" This slightly curbs my optimism.

America now produces enough oil that cutting off Saudi Arabia wouldn't be any kind of energy crisis. The only reason to be nice to tolerate their journalist murders at this point is for military strategic advantages in the middle east.

>for military strategic advantages in the middle east.

Really? As a European, I feel much closer to Iran's history and culture than Saudi Arabia's. My understanding is that the US chose a side a long time ago (cf. ARAMCO foundation) and decided to go "all in", even if it goes a long way against its interest. And things are getting worse with time.

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#44

Post by kakarot »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #17
lykr0n wrote: post #5

Texas is in a funny place. They are pumping oil like crazy, but they are building wind like crazy as well. Look at the City of Austin and the amount of renewables year over year: https://data.austintexas.gov/Utilities-and-City-Services/Gen... You can see a real-time chart of energy mix here: https://austinenergy.com/ae/about/environment/renewable-powe... Most days renewables are 50% of electricity consumes. I pay a b…

Don't forget that Texas is also one of the largest producer of nuclear energy in the nation.

We're also the largest electricity consumer, so that might not mean anything special.

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#45

Post by toomuchtodo »

mc32 wrote: post #22
toomuchtodo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't feasible. The refineries in the US are not designed for the same oil produced by the Permian basin (the Permian is producing light crude, US refineries are configured for medium to heavy crude). More importantly, oil is fungible on the world market; you can't effectively dictate "Oil produced in America is consumed in America" without drastically regulating the energy market with public policy (not going t…

China imports more oil than we do and their demand for energy is only going to go up. We’re producing more energy domestically and lessening our reliance on foreign energy, so China has a bigger incentive to change their energy equation —in addition, their gov can just issue a decree and change policy with but a little corruption interfering a bit.

We have spent a non-insignificant amount on the Fifth Fleet (25 navy vessels) to ensure the stable supply of middle eastern oil onto energy markets. That seems to be of substantial incentive to mitigate our need for oil to drive our economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Fifth_Fleet

> Well, even a blind pig finds an acorn once in awhile. While working on a recent piece on how to cut $1 trillion from the $7-trillion-plus U.S. defense budget over the coming decade, I stumbled upon a provocative analysis by Roger Stern, an economic geographer at Princeton University. He says the U.S. has “mis-allocated” — others might say “wasted” — $8 trillion since 1976 protecting the oil flow from the Persian Gulf that fuels much of the global economy. Especially since in 2010, when the U.S. was the destination of less than 10 percent of the oil flowing out of the Gulf.

> The U.S. has insisted, since the days of the Carter Administration, that the oil flowing out of the Persian Gulf is a vital national-security interest of the U.S. Beyond that, Presidents and the Pentagon have said, the narrow Strait of Hormuz is a vulnerable bottleneck for shipping headed out of the Gulf. Any troublemaker — especially Iran — could bring the U.S. and world economies to their collective knees by shutting it down by sinking a couple of tankers as they pass through. Consequently, the U.S. has poured tons of money into the region since then, including three wars. It has bulked up its military forces in the neighborhood — including the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet, headquarters in Bahrain, smack dab in the middle of the gulf — to keep the oil flowing.

http://nation.time.com/2011/04/24/a-question-for-the-obama-a... (Have we wasted $8 trillion defending the Persian Gulf from a non-existent threat?)

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#46

Post by andrewflnr »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #39
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are no electric alternatives for most long distance transportation, which is a huge chunk of our energy consumption. What about trains?

Trains don't get you and your overseas goods across oceans (yet).

It may not be fast, but wind power is a proven technology for that application.

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#47

Post by munk-a »

hnphillipj wrote: post #34
lykr0n wrote: post #5

Texas is in a funny place. They are pumping oil like crazy, but they are building wind like crazy as well. Look at the City of Austin and the amount of renewables year over year: https://data.austintexas.gov/Utilities-and-City-Services/Gen... You can see a real-time chart of energy mix here: https://austinenergy.com/ae/about/environment/renewable-powe... Most days renewables are 50% of electricity consumes. I pay a b…

You should know that oil is hardly used for elec. gen in developed countries. They are only indirect competitors - through the automobile.

You in fact shouldn't know this as the EIA reports that 3,239,699 barrels of petroleum products were consumed in august of this year alone for electrical generation in the US (source https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T... )

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#48

Post by tomrod »

sk5t wrote: post #14
lykr0n wrote: post #5

Texas is in a funny place. They are pumping oil like crazy, but they are building wind like crazy as well. Look at the City of Austin and the amount of renewables year over year: https://data.austintexas.gov/Utilities-and-City-Services/Gen... You can see a real-time chart of energy mix here: https://austinenergy.com/ae/about/environment/renewable-powe... Most days renewables are 50% of electricity consumes. I pay a b…

Isn't it typical for each economy to export the thing it is best at producing? Also look at Norway--huge petroleum wealth, lots of Teslas because oil is dirty.

Not quite. It exports everywhere there is a comparative advantage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#49

Post by technofiend »

hnphillipj wrote: post #34
lykr0n wrote: post #5

Texas is in a funny place. They are pumping oil like crazy, but they are building wind like crazy as well. Look at the City of Austin and the amount of renewables year over year: https://data.austintexas.gov/Utilities-and-City-Services/Gen... You can see a real-time chart of energy mix here: https://austinenergy.com/ae/about/environment/renewable-powe... Most days renewables are 50% of electricity consumes. I pay a b…

You should know that oil is hardly used for elec. gen in developed countries. They are only indirect competitors - through the automobile.

>You should know that oil is not used for elec. gen in developed countries.

Eh? When I worked for a United States generation company our coal-burning plants could and would be switched to bunker fuel if the price was right. To be fair it's not much (less than 5%) depending on how you slice it, but in their 2016 annual report [1] Dynegy reported 2.6 TWh (terawatt hours) sold into the wholesale market and .7 TWh into retail.

Be careful about blanket statements unless you're an expert in the area because other HN readers are experts.

[1] = https://www.dynegy.com/sites/default/files/Dynegy_2016_Annua...

Re: Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare

#50

Post by rascul »

2trill2spill wrote: post #41
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no electrical generation source that is worse than oil, for any electric car. Only 12-30% [1] (EDIT: replaced 1% after correction from nradov) of energy makes it to the wheels when burning petroleum to propel a vehicle forward. Your electric car will get cleaner over time (90-95% of new generation coming online each year are renewables), your petrol vehicle will burn petrol forever. [1] https://www.fuelecono…

> There is no electrical generation source that is worse than oil, for any electric car. Only 1% of energy makes it to the wheels when burning petroleum to propel a vehicle forward. What? You say "there is no electrical generation source that is worse than oil" then say "Only 1% of energy makes it to the wheels when burning petroleum to propel a vehicle forward." A gasoline powered car is not an electrical generation…

> A gasoline powered car is not an electrical generation source

Just a minor thing, and doesn't change your point, but have you considered that cars have alternators which use the turning of the engine to generate electricity?

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