American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island • Hacker News Board

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#131

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #40

quicklime wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The few contacts that the North Sentinelese have had with the outside world have often resulted in kidnappings, death and disease being bought into the island. Given the few data points they have, it seems reasonable for them to want to avoid any further foreign contact.

They were armed combatants and the person they killed was a civilian. I can think of loads of people that I could shoot with a bow to protect my interests, and the fact that I have not signed any treaties to not do it doesn't mean I can.

It seems rather improbable that a pre-civilization tribe even has the concepts of "armed combatant" or "civilian" in the modern day sense of those words.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#132

Post by subjectsigma » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:43 PM UTC

joejerryronnie wrote: post #48

deanCommie wrote: post #12

> Mr. Pathak said Mr. Chau, believed to be 26 or 27 and from Washington State, may have been trying to convert the islanders to Christianity. Right before he left in his kayak, Mr. Chau gave the fishermen a long note. In it, police officials said, he had written that Jesus had bestowed him with the strength to go to the most forbidden places on Earth. A perfect storm of Christian and American arrogance.

@dang - is this acceptable on HN? It would really help to understand which groups we’re able to attack and which are frowned upon.

There's incredible bias here against Christians and occasionally also white Americans. Sad for a website that's A) dedicated to technology, where people are supposedly more open and accepting, and B) supposedly holding itself to a higher standard than other similar forums.

My advice would be to just ignore it and flag rule violations, in my admittedly brief HN career doing anything else has never helped me nor anyone I'm replying to.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#133

Post by ryanmercer » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:43 PM UTC

cma wrote: post #74

projectramo wrote: post #38

The comments here are horrific. Yes, I don't think we should invade the lives of indigenous people any more than you do. And yes, I think this young man was mistaken and misguided. But, he went in with the best of intentions, and he died. You just don't believe what he did. Imagine a techie died while trying to teach rails to the homeless (which, I can only assume, some of you might be more sympathetic towards), woul…

They fired arrows on him on his first attempt that didn't hit, he fled, and kept coming back to trespass over several days because an imaginary man told him to. The bad part is he was probably brainwashed into the religion as a young child, but I don't know that for sure.

>The bad part is he was probably brainwashed into the religion as a young child

Why do, apparently intelligent, people automatically throw out 'brainwashed' 'cult' etc when it comes to religion.

Is it improbable that any given religion is actually correct? Sure.

Do you know what else is improbable? That 13.8 billion years ago a single event occurred that spawned an incalculable amount of events that allowed for you and I to exist, for the internet to exist, for this news article to exist, for us to be having this conversation.

If someone wants to believe in the God of Abraham, the Spaghetti Monster, that we have free will, that we are nothing but accidental chemical arrangements in a cold and uncaring universe, why do you feel the need to lash out and label them as 'brainwashed' or 'part of a cult' or 'an idiot' or 'superstitious'. If they aren't directly hurting you, who cares?

Does God exist? Who knows. Do we live in a simulation? Who knows. Am I an artificial general intelligence that has deluded itself into thinking it has a biotic form and is participating in the physical world and not in fact just existing on the internet itself? Probably not but it's possible.

If someone's not directly hurting you, don't take a dump on their beliefs. Say "that's not for me" or better, say nothing at all.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#134

Post by verroq » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #113

verroq wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe in moral relativism. They don’t get a pass for not knowing better. Just as their victims didn’t get a pass for not knowing better.

> I don’t believe in moral relativism. Good for you? The homeless, penniless child should never steal the loaf of bread when all other, apparent, options are exhausted. > They don’t get a pass for not knowing better. They get a pass because it was already decided a long time ago that they were too dangerous for outsiders to be allowed near. They're contained, and by the survey numbers their population is dwindling. I…

I don’t see how a single homeless child is comparable. This is more like justifying North Korea’s methods because the poor country is just trying to survive.

The victim should have known they were murderous savages but gave them the benefit of the doubt anyway.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#135

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

qiqing wrote: post #96

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"According to health professionals, the fear of spread of disease by bodies killed by trauma rather than disease is not justified. Among others, Steven Rottman, director of the UCLA Center for Public Health and Disasters, said that no scientific evidence exists that bodies of disaster victims increase the risk of epidemics, adding that cadavers posed less risk of contagion than living people." https://en.wikipedia.or…

In this case, a living person would also pose a risk. These islanders don't have the same immune system that the population the health professionals are looking after have, just like Native Americans didn't have the same immune system as Europeans.

It's not comparable to the "New World" situation. These islands are close to the continent and had regular (if dangerous) visits from modern people throughout the twentieth century. We have no reason to think that Chau carried a deadly disease.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#136

Post by leetcrew » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #57

xutopia wrote: post #23

I'm fascinated by these people. They must have one heck of a culture to immediately resort to killing any stranger that lands on their shore. I wonder what religious beliefs they have and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us. As fascinated as I am I would double check that I have something to row with if I take a motorboat out to see the island from afar. No way in hell I…

I think you're over estimating how friendly other cultures are to outsiders. There are numerous, numerous cases of greed and ambition leading to the slaughter and enslavement of native peoples by invaders/conquerors. There are also multiple states in the USA where you'd be within your rights to shoot anyone on your property.

> There are also multiple states in the USA where you'd be within your rights to shoot anyone on your property.

in which US states can you legally use deadly force against anyone on your property (not in your house) without being threatened?

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#137

Post by yesenadam » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

RufusJacksons wrote: post #115

yesenadam wrote: post #11

..a remote Indian island, North Sentinel, that I learned all about after it was mentioned on HN a couple of weeks ago. Small world! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island ..which led to reading about other "uncontacted peoples", a fascinating and sad story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples edit: Oh, it was 8 days ago. I submitted this[1] ripping yarn about an American with an anthropolog…

Don’t know if read down to the Waorani people on that wiki article - but I followed the same trajectory from the HN post last week. I’ve had the pleasure to have hiked out from Shell Ecuador to a Waoroni village and spent some tine with them (they speared a number of Christian missionaries to death in the 50’s) and it’s quite fascinating how their culture has changed from one of the most violant to a peaceful one, an…

Thanks. P.S. The documentary Beyond the Gates of Splendor by the same director about the same story sounds better.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337868/

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#138

Post by subjectsigma » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

swatkat wrote: post #13

What he did was illegal. Access to the island is restricted for a reason. >>> But Mr. Chau pushed ahead in his kayak, which he had packed with a Bible. After that, it is a bit of a mystery what happened. Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore.

>Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore.

I don't know, the Saudis just started letting women drive earlier this year. People do lots of weird things for religion - some of them you might not agree with, and some of them might be straight up dumb. The year doesn't matter.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#139

Post by JPKab » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #119

JPKab wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain to me how the fact that he happens to be American is proven to be causal here? I guess you make a good point. After all, the missionaries who converted indigenous populations all over the world were all from the USA. Oh wait, no. The vast majority of the Christian missions were founded by Europeans. Arabs converted millions to Islam hundreds of years ago. But yeah, they were all infected with American…

Proven to be causal? Like we'd clone 1000 John Allen Chaus, raise them around the globe, and see how many of them do something fatally arrogant relating to overseas travel? As an American who has lived on 4 continents, I can confirm that American tourists quite often live up to the stereotype. I have a variety of painful memories of times I've had to intervene and explain things and/or translate for aggressively clue…

A very snide remark you start with, not realizing you are proving my point.

He made a statement that is a sweeping generalization that isn't even provable.

Your anecdotal experiences on 4 continents are again, just that. Anecdotes. The American travelers you didn't notice, and therefore don't remember, aren't included in your confirmation bias fueled reasoning.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#140

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

txcwpalpha wrote: post #106

throwawaywhynot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

xenophobia? You're attributing 20th century concepts to a tribe with no hint of modern civilization. The history of humans is bloodier than you think.

Xenophobia is not a "20th century concept". Xenophobia has existed for as long as man has existed. Cavemen were most likely xenophobic towards other cavemen. Hell, for all you know, some of the Sentinelese might even be xenophobic to other Sentinelese that live on a different part of their island. Animals of all types also exhibit xenophobia, even the ones that have "no hint of modern civilization".

You realize, of course, that you're in complete agreement with GP?