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American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

nytimes.com

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Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#101

Post by stevenwoo »

xutopia wrote: post #23

I'm fascinated by these people. They must have one heck of a culture to immediately resort to killing any stranger that lands on their shore. I wonder what religious beliefs they have and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us. As fascinated as I am I would double check that I have something to row with if I take a motorboat out to see the island from afar. No way in hell I…

All the cultures in the Americas that welcomed strangers were slaughtered by the Europeans beginning with Columbus which didn't get a lot of coverage in the stories they told my generation of American children - and these particular islanders had already had a bad experience in their first dealings with the British a couple of hundred years ago.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#102

Post by natalyarostova »

deanCommie wrote: post #12

> Mr. Pathak said Mr. Chau, believed to be 26 or 27 and from Washington State, may have been trying to convert the islanders to Christianity. Right before he left in his kayak, Mr. Chau gave the fishermen a long note. In it, police officials said, he had written that Jesus had bestowed him with the strength to go to the most forbidden places on Earth. A perfect storm of Christian and American arrogance.

Combined with the savage lack of humanity and reasoning skills of isolated peoples.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#103

Post by malmsteen »

monocasa wrote: post #90
malmsteen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he implies americans are more stupid than europeans nowadays #trump #mormons #altright #bigots. We dont really have that in europe Edit: "some" americans of course.

Y'all have plenty of crazy far right populism gaining steam between AfD, Golden Dawn, Front National, etc.

"Front national" people are not exactly "crazy".. on the racist / bigot side but mostly working class people scared for their wallet / culture. They wouldnt exacly go evangelise peopne like that

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#105

Post by crooked-v »

Jtsummers wrote: post #33
classicsnoot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if your generosity in interpretation extends to modern cultures and their borders.

By "modern" I'll interpret that to mean "a nation generally participating in the global community": I'd say, they have every right to defend their borders from invaders. But they also have knowledge that these islanders don't have. They have an understanding that outsiders are not all belligerent and to be feared or non-entities to be killed (though some will act counter to that knowledge, see the stoked fear in the…

This wasn't a "kill on sight" situation, though: he was driven off with warning shots first, and was only killed after several attempts over two days to step foot on the island. That's much more patience than I'd expect from, say, North Korean border guards.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#106

Post by txcwpalpha »

throwawaywhynot wrote: post #79
xutopia wrote: post #23

I'm fascinated by these people. They must have one heck of a culture to immediately resort to killing any stranger that lands on their shore. I wonder what religious beliefs they have and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us. As fascinated as I am I would double check that I have something to row with if I take a motorboat out to see the island from afar. No way in hell I…

xenophobia? You're attributing 20th century concepts to a tribe with no hint of modern civilization. The history of humans is bloodier than you think.

Xenophobia is not a "20th century concept". Xenophobia has existed for as long as man has existed. Cavemen were most likely xenophobic towards other cavemen. Hell, for all you know, some of the Sentinelese might even be xenophobic to other Sentinelese that live on a different part of their island.

Animals of all types also exhibit xenophobia, even the ones that have "no hint of modern civilization".

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#107

Post by dragonwriter »

projectramo wrote: post #38

The comments here are horrific. Yes, I don't think we should invade the lives of indigenous people any more than you do. And yes, I think this young man was mistaken and misguided. But, he went in with the best of intentions, and he died. You just don't believe what he did. Imagine a techie died while trying to teach rails to the homeless (which, I can only assume, some of you might be more sympathetic towards), woul…

> But, he went in with the best of intentions, and he died. You just don't believe what he did. Imagine a techie died while trying to teach rails to the homeless (which, I can only assume, some of you might be more sympathetic towards), would you feel the same way?

This wasn't the homeless, this was a society which has (overtly, if only in practice and not in name) been granted, by the relevant government, absolute internal self rule, and which notoriously applies summary execution to invaders.

Whether that community should be self-governing, and whether or not it is justified in its response to intrusion are, certainly, topics perhaps worthy of debate.

But, look, after making initial and peaceful contact he got in a fight with the natives where an arrow was shot into a book he was carrying, fled, and then tried to return the next day. When the people whose land you are intruding on have clearly signalled that you personally are unwelcome and they are prepared to deadly force to keep you away, I'm not sure that it can be said that your return is some kind of morally virtuous (“best of intentions”) act in any case (his actual intentions appear unclear, as his writings and comments to others indicate that thyey were either thrill-seeking or proselytization or a mix of the two.)

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#108

Post by ryanmercer »

Udik wrote: post #83
WhompingWindows wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their religion and its proponents teach them to spread the word, they won't take a break. It's what separates Christianity and Islam from the majority of non-proselytizing religions.

I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. In many respects it is true that American evangelical churches are much more retrograde than the Catholic church itself, promoting a brand of religion that is, for example, self-righteous, anti-scientific, and putting particular emphasis on the more archaic and brutal Old Testament.

>I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing.

Because they did most of it starting in the middle ages and the Age of Discovery. In fact that's mostly what the Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits did in California, South America and Asia from 1500ish to well into the late 1800's.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#109

Post by monocasa »

malmsteen wrote: post #103
monocasa wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'all have plenty of crazy far right populism gaining steam between AfD, Golden Dawn, Front National, etc.

"Front national" people are not exactly "crazy".. on the racist / bigot side but mostly working class people scared for their wallet / culture. They wouldnt exacly go evangelise peopne like that

[flagged]

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#110

Post by Steko »

whatshisface wrote: post #40
quicklime wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The few contacts that the North Sentinelese have had with the outside world have often resulted in kidnappings, death and disease being bought into the island. Given the few data points they have, it seems reasonable for them to want to avoid any further foreign contact.

They were armed combatants and the person they killed was a civilian. I can think of loads of people that I could shoot with a bow to protect my interests, and the fact that I have not signed any treaties to not do it doesn't mean I can.

Perhaps they felt threatened and have a primitive belief that allows them to kill people whenever this happens. Like in Florida.
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