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Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades

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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades

#31

Post by burfog »

bogle wrote: post #29
burfog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame that death on the doctor being unaware of problems with aspirin. (many decades ago?) Chickenpox barely had anything to do with the death; many ordinary illnesses would give the same result.

A quick check of what Reye's Syndrome was would have told you that it is both associated with chickenpox and the first paper to make the link to aspirin was in 1989 (add time for that information to be fully understood and disseminated).

It's also associated with the flu and, generally, with upper respiratory tract infections.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades

#32

Post by burfog »

lentil_soup wrote: post #17
berbec wrote: post #5

It's sad that people look at this and just say "silly anti-vaxxers". The proper response is "How can parents get with endangering the lives of their own and their neighbor's children?"

or even further, "what is making these parents make the choice to not vaccinate children?". Is it education? is it distrust of the system?

In this case, parents are educated by experience actually getting chickenpox. Although horrible complications are indeed possible, the risks are really being blown out of proportion. Chickenpox vaccination is more about pharmaceutical companies and missed school days.

There is also plenty of distrust. This is to be expected, given the well-known existence of lobbying by for-profit pharmaceutical companies that are legally protected from all liability. Specific complaints are that vaccines are manufactured using tissue cultures from aborted babies, that some of the diseases aren't even present in the USA (can vaccinate if they come back), that disease risks are overstated (given modern care and general health), that vaccine risks are understated (the window of time for a vaccine injury to be legally accepted is too narrow), and that pharmaceutical companies refuse to offer some of the vaccines in single-disease form.

For example, one of those combo vaccines (I think the MMR or DTAP) is a problem for somebody I know. A single component of the vaccine is made from tissue culture that originates from an aborted baby. The kids would be vaccinated for the other diseases if it were possible to get separate vaccinations in the USA. Japan has separate vaccinations available, but a trip to Japan is a major undertaking.

Some people are resistant to a hard sell. The supposed "education" to push for vaccination is always very one-sided. People can see it. The harder the push, the more suspicion is generated. It's sort of like the car dealer experience.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades

#33

Post by theOneTrueOld »

majewsky wrote: post #12
jriot wrote: post #10

Love seeing all the hate here. Pretty sure all of us grew-up in the era where we contracted chicken-pox. We took an oatmeal bath, spent a few days at home, and all was well again.

Except for those children that died of it, which you probably didn't see. The plural of anecdote is not data.

"The plural of anecdote is not data"

Wonderful, Is that yours?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades

#34

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

djohnston wrote: post #15
Rjevski wrote: post #6

Glad to see natural selection working as intended.

eh, it's usually not the anti vaxers, but their children, who suffer. so it's not some cosmic justice, just a sad case of parental neglect

Well, if you offspring don't make it until the age they can reproduce, it's still natural selection...

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades

#35

Post by berbec »

burfog wrote: post #32
lentil_soup wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or even further, "what is making these parents make the choice to not vaccinate children?". Is it education? is it distrust of the system?

In this case, parents are educated by experience actually getting chickenpox. Although horrible complications are indeed possible, the risks are really being blown out of proportion. Chickenpox vaccination is more about pharmaceutical companies and missed school days. There is also plenty of distrust. This is to be expected, given the well-known existence of lobbying by for-profit pharmaceutical companies that are le…

Good points and well laid out. I don't quite get the DVs.

One point I'd make, about the "tissue culture that originates from an aborted baby" vaccine. According to [1], the MMR vaccine:

"The viruses are cultured in aborted fetal tissue cells. The cells were obtained more than 50 years ago, as a result of elective abortions"

There are no new fetal tissues being "harvested" (I know that's not the proper term, forgive me) to make more vaccines. They are keeping cultures donated fifty years ago growing.

I can understand people not liking the hard-sell on vaccines, but what I can't wrap my head around is how much effort should have to go into the argument "give your kids these shots so a horrific number of children don't make it to 15". The CDC has a broad info page, but one point comes across crystal clear to me (even specifically about the MMR vaccine):

"An epidemic of rubella (German measles) in 1964-65 infected 12½ million Americans, killed 2,000 babies, and caused 11,000 miscarriages. Since 2012, 15 cases of rubella were reported to CDC." [2]

1: https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-vaccines-contain-aborted-f... 2: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

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