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Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

idlewords.com

61–70 of 256 posts

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#61
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First time encountering a Maciej idlewords post, huh? He doesn't even take himself seriously. That also doesn't stop him from being an excellent and thoughtful writer.

I don't mean to say "he made a Rick and Morty reference, Serious Adults don't make Rick and Morty references". That'd be dumb. I mean that he points to a robot in Rick and Morty that was sad about being programmed to pass butter, and attempts to infer from this that real robots would refuse to intelligently pursue arbitrary goals, and therefore that the orthogonality thesis is false. He's treating a thing that happen…

The serious statement he makes is that humans have complex motivations, and he thinks any superintelligence would as well--in fact it might be a defining feature of intelligence. The Rick and Morty reference was just a humorous example of what might happen, not an actual argument. The subheading was "the argument from complex motivations", not "the argument from Rick and Morty", so let's try and focus on the serious part and not the humorous aside.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#62
post #60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Complex Motivations. Maybe, but if not we are screwed. And this is the key: we need to get lucky every time. If we're wrong even once and a 'bad AI' gets created and obtains the ability to copy and modify itself, we've unleashed the most dangerous virus ever and putting it back in the box will be near impossible.

you are pretty optimistic about your AI's ability to deal with novel situations.

To be unconcerned, you need to be very optimistic and have a very strong believe (99% or higher probability) that no AI to be invented in the next four or five decades can deal with novel situations (which we didn’t anticipate beforehand).

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#64

I can't help but take a stab. Argument from cats. Remembering that the cat represents humanity: $5 for a group of neurons which will make the cat sit at this point (which happens to be at the entrance into a cat carrier), then $5 for making the cat backpedal a little. Emus. There are many tactics humans can't use for various reasons (saturation nuclear bombardment, for example). It doesn't say much about intelligence…

> $5 for a group of neurons which will make cat sit...

What do you mean by this? As in, cats have demonstrably had electrodes or similar used to persuade them to sit?

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#65
what I find interesting is that for most of my life, Moore's law was... as real as gravity; It seemed like any problem you had, wait a few years and you could just brute force it.

The future really did look limitless.

Now, moore's law has slowed down. Hell, I've got a 7 year old laptop next to me, and it still works for games. I mean, in the '90s, a 7 year old computer would be a museum piece.

I mean, for big AI advances now, we're more and more dependent on software.

Really, though, I think this seems to be how most tech works. There are periods of rapid innovation where it looks like you are going to the moon. Like, even spaceflight. In the years from 1944-1969 we went from the first practical rocket that could lob a bomb across the channel (without much accuracy, as i understand it) to actually putting human beings on the fucking moon. The literal moon. I mean, 1961-1969 might be even more amazing; vostock 1; the USSR sent Gagarin into outer space, and the US decided they needed to one-up them; so the US went to the moon.

Aand... we kinda stopped after that. I mean, we sent out some probes and some robots, but like manned space flight has kinda petered out... and I still can't take a rocket if I want to go visit my buddies on the antipode and I don't want to spend all day in an airplane. Like, I can't buy a flight to Australia in under 12 hours for love or money, which probably is about what I'd say if it were 1969. (on the other hand, I can get said flight- round trip- for rather less than a day's pay for an Engineer, which is amazing, if you ask me.)

And a lot of that is physics. Like, in most technologies, there's areas where progress is slow and hard and areas where once you break through some hard part, it becomes easy to advance... for a while. but that easy streak never lasts forever. Not because people are dumber or smarter, but because exponential progressions, in nature, rarely stay exponential very long.

I guess I'm expressing doubt about the 'hard takeoff' just 'cause it seems to me like there is probably limits to how smart you can make a brain the same way that there are limits to how small you can make features on a silicon wafer.

I'm not saying you won't be able to make a machine that is way smarter than me (or even way smarter than any human) - I'm just saying there are almost certainly limits.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#66
>If you encountered a cheetah in pre-industrial times (and survived the meeting)

I'm not aware of any confirmed report of a cheetah killing a human. They're cautious animals who are highly unlike to approach a human, more so than the other big cats. Most cheetah attacks involved captive cheetahs (and the humans survived).

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#67
post #52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because we can easily imagine it does not make it easily achievable or even possible. It is without question possible, because we exist. It is also possible to do it quickly, because again, we exist. The only thing that is unclear is: 1. How hard it is to do artificially. 2. How far from optimum the human mind is, and how complex it is to improve upon it.

Ironically, given the articles criticism of the simulation argument, there is an 'escape hatch' with respect of the ability of simulating a human mind in the form of the simulation argument: it is possible that human brains in our universe is just the tip of the iceberg and relies on a massive amount of computation 'outside' of the main simulation that is impossible to do faster 'in universe'. Of course we have absol…

That's a really interesting thought. Essentially, the technical analogy of what a 'soul' could be.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#68
post #31

> The second premise is that the brain is an ordinary configuration of matter, albeit an extraordinarily complicated one. This is the part I doubt is true. There was a time when humans thought brains were very complex systems of microscopic clockwork because gears were the pinnacle of technology. How do people keep mistaking pattern matching with intelligence?

So what is the brain if not just matter?

If there's no god who prohibits connecting immaterial parts to anything but human brain, then it's a technical problem.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#69
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are pretty optimistic about your AI's ability to deal with novel situations.

To be unconcerned, you need to be very optimistic and have a very strong believe (99% or higher probability) that no AI to be invented in the next four or five decades can deal with novel situations (which we didn’t anticipate beforehand).

Yeah, deal with novel situations better than humans. In a world where we are approaching the physical limits of integrated circuit feature size? I like my chances.

Personally, I find it amazing that humanity survived the cold war. the fact we did not self-immolate goes against everything I believe about humanity and human nature. The fact that we made it through that gives me a lot of hope for the future.

But, the fission bombs were expensive, centralized weapons. there was a small number of men who could have pushed the button.

The problems I see now aren't general AI; the problems I think you should fear is that we have very powerful tools that are very cheap. I mean, like the deepfakes thing. If instead of making creepy porn, what if people used that technology to cause chaos? Make targeted ads/videos of leaders saying nutty things? I mean, I think we could adapt to deepfakes style attacks fairly quickly; someone would have to use it decisively while it's new. But things like that are being invented all the time.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#70
post #47

I can't help but take a stab. Argument from cats. Remembering that the cat represents humanity: $5 for a group of neurons which will make the cat sit at this point (which happens to be at the entrance into a cat carrier), then $5 for making the cat backpedal a little. Emus. There are many tactics humans can't use for various reasons (saturation nuclear bombardment, for example). It doesn't say much about intelligence…

> Complex Motivations. Maybe, but if not we are screwed. And this is the key: we need to get lucky every time. If we're wrong even once and a 'bad AI' gets created and obtains the ability to copy and modify itself, we've unleashed the most dangerous virus ever and putting it back in the box will be near impossible.

Not really. ML systems are not created in isolation by a single team; they form an ecosystem with many players. I'm sure the current crop of cybercriminals would like an army of bots which manipulates people into giving away all their money, and are, in fact pursuing this goal.

Likewise, I'm sure there are teams of security researchers already using ML to counteract such systems.

Both sides will evolve together as an ecosystem, in the same complex interplay of attack and defense which exists in natural ecosystems. Natural ecosystems are an arms race of continual adaption, but it's not a foregone conclusion that there will be a real winner, or that winners take all.

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