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The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

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Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#171
Two earlier posts of hers that got a lot of commentary on HN (2016).:

Why not string theory? Because enough is enough. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11885036

and

The LHC “nightmare scenario” has come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12238197

Very similar theme of lack of verifiable theories.

I wonder what the experimental physicists have to say about this topic? I feel like theories are also driven by new observations. However the observations that the theorists have to go on are very indirect compared to those of 100 years ago. "The mass of this galaxy is out by x percent" isn't doesn't give many clues as to what's wrong.

Compare that to observations of Mercury's orbit that happened 2 centuries before Einstein published his Relativity theories. ( http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/EinsteinTest... )

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#172
post #3

Love this comment left on the post by Peter Shor (of Shor's algorithm--the algorithm that kicked off the quantum computing frenzy). I assume it's him and not an imposter. "It's not just that scientists don't want to move their butts, although that's undoubtedly part of it. It's also that they can't. In today's university funding system, you need grants (well, maybe you don't truly need them once you have tenure, but…

I wonder if some rich people could start a form of charity where they just pay a few incredibly brilliant people a good salary to go do whatever research they want for the rest of their lives. Sort of like patronage. Just bypass the whole grant funding cycle and work on whatever you want, because you're a genius and want to study things other people don't like or understand.

It's kind of like what happens with the people who invest in startups... the founders who fit the investors' conceptions of what brilliant people look like get funded. It's also a big problem in philanthropy and why many times it's better to have (even slow and inefficient) government depts with set criteria and review processes deciding who gets funding.

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, that's a good explanation- in the sense that I understand now what the previous comment, by Koshkin meant in responding to mine that there is no "wrong" frame of reference. >> The location, and speed with which you are travelling is what general relativity calls a "frame of reference", and none of them are "correct" or "incorrect", they're just predictors for what observations will be possible from that fr…

Right, so what was ground breaking about General Relativity, is that it challenged the newtonian axioms (assumptions) that there's a single universal clock, and that all objects within the universe are effectively rigid and exist in something resembling euclidian geometric space, and all move forward through time at the same speed. Newtonian physics explains many things very well, but couldn't explain other phenomeno…

Thanks, I didn't kow about Einstein and quantum physics. I'll have to read a bit about that, it sounds interesing.

My original comment is grounded in an assumption that predictive power is not enough to identify a theory as correct, and neither is simplicity. There's nothing to stop any number of theories to have the same predictive power and the same kind of complexity. Sometimes, it's just very difficult to choose one, above the others.

Did I come across as confusing predictive power with complexity?

EDIT: it's interesting you bring Occam's razor up. It's part of what I'm studying, in the context of identifying relevant information in (machine) learning. There are mathematical results (in the framework of PAC-learning) that say that, basically, the more complex your training data, the more likely you are to overfit to irrelevant details. At that point, you have a model that explains observations perfectly well, but is useless to explain unseen observations (the really unseen ones- not those pretending to be unseen for the puprose of cross-validation).

...iiish. The result is that large hypothesis spaces tend to produce higher error. But, the size of the hypothesis space in statistical machine learning depends on the complexity of the data, as in the number of features. Anyway, I'm fudging it some. I'm still reading up on that stuff.

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What irritated me about it was the assumption that, if most of your predictions are correct, your model is almost entirely correct, and just needs to be tweaked a bit. Haha, no. We wish. Epicycles worked very well and were highly accurate, because, as Fourier analysis later showed, any smooth curve can be approximated to arbitrary accuracy with a sufficient number of epicycles. However, they fell out of favour wit…

As your article explains (but too briefly), epicycles do predict wrong. It predicts correct locations but incorrect phases. "It was not until Galileo Galilei observed ... the phases of Venus in September 1610 that the heliocentric model began to receive broad support among astronomers."

My understanding is that these had not been observed before Galileo, or at least not observed by many and not long before Galileo's time. In that case, they weren't so much incorrectly predicted, as not observed.

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human productivity is at its highest point in human history, so one can't help but wonder why we must all work harder than our ancestors to exist.

And more economically useless work is done than ever before by an enormous margin (advertising, CGI, video games, cosmetics, PR, social media addiction, etc.). Just briefly think about how many people produce nothing of real value (i.e. value that would actually reduce housing, food, and medical costs) and how many are simply trying to redistribute the demand of the general population so they can get theirs. Basicall…

> many people produce nothing of real value (i.e. value that would actually reduce housing, food, and medical costs)

Worse still, many people do work that exists for the purpose of raising housing, food, and medical costs.

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're right. I was getting it jumbled up with the magnetic moment of the electron, which is predicted by the SM (well, the QED part anyway), to be slightly different to the 'classical' prediction. Experiment measurement of this is accurate to one part per billion, and is consistent with the QED prediction. The electroweak bits of the SM predict the W & Z bosons, along with their masses, which have also been mea…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standard model makes no prediction for the masses of any of the fundamental particles. To my knowledge, they are all input parameters. It might put certain bounds on them, but in the end they are all not predicted by the standard model itself. This is seen as one of the big issues with the standard model, that it does not actually explain a lot of the characteristics of the fundamenta…

For the W & Z bosons, their masses are derived from 3 other 'free parameters' of the SM.

The Higgs mass is indeed a free parameter, but the SM wouldn't work of it's mass was greater than 200 GeV or so. The Higgs interacts with other particles of mass, and the strength of interaction is proportional to the Higgs mass, it influences certain processes (like W boson scattering), the rate at which these happen would deviate from experimental observation if Mhiggs was over 200 GeV.

That's why the LHC was such a big deal, it reached the energies required for direct observation of sub-200 GeV Higgs, so it would either find the SM Higgs, or rule it out and invalidate the SM. Unfortunately the former seems to have happened.

SM free parameters: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model#Construction_...

Indirect constraints on Higgs mass in SM (a bit technical, slide 6 chart is the key one, strongly influenced specs & mission of the LHC) https://indico.lal.in2p3.fr

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you can’t just go hide in your attic. Everyone is more risk averse than ever as the cost of housing, healthcare, and education relentlessly increase faster than wages.

Human productivity is at its highest point in human history, so one can't help but wonder why we must all work harder than our ancestors to exist.

Keynes famously predicted 88 years ago [1] that "the economic problem" would be solved 100 years thence (hence in 12 years), and assumed that people would only need to work 15 hours a week. But back then already he pointed out two issues:

* what will people do with their free time? "It is a fearful problem for the ordinary person, with no special talents, to occupy himself, especially if he no longer has roots in the soil or in custom or in the beloved conventions of a traditional society. To judge from the behaviour and the achievements of the wealthy classes to-day in any quarter of the world, the outlook is very depressing!" He asked whether there might be a "general 'nervous breakdown'" of people "who cannot find it sufficiently amusing [...] to cook and clean and mend, yet are quite unable to find anything more amusing."

* While most of our needs would easily be fulfilled, he noted a second class of needs, jostling for relative status, that might never be: there are two classes, "needs which are absolute in the sense that we feel them whatever the situation of our fellow human beings may be, and those which are relative in the sense that we feel them only if their satisfaction lifts us above, makes us feel superior to, our fellows. Needs of the second class, those which satisfy the desire for superiority, may indeed be insatiable; for the higher the general level, the higher still are they."

And he got somewhat overly optimistic then maybe:

"The love of money as a possession – as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life – will be recognised for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal, semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists in mental disease. All kinds of social customs and economic practices, affecting the distribution of wealth and of economic rewards and penalties, which we now maintain at all costs, however distasteful and unjust they may be in themselves, because they are tremendously useful in promoting the accumulation of capital, we shall then be free, at last, to discard.

Of course there will still be many people with intense, unsatisfied purposiveness who will blindly pursue wealth – unless they can find some plausible substitute. But the rest of us will no longer be under any obligation to applaud and encourage them."

Seems to me the massive inequality and concomitant struggle for relative status keeps most everyone working like crazy, even though we have many times more than what people had a century ago.

[1] https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/keynes/...

EDIT to add: Keynes biographer Lord Skidelsky has a book about it, How much is enough?:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/jun/29/how-much-is-en...

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#178
post #141

I suppose this is as an appropriate time as any to ask for advice: I am a multimillionaire from inheritance, and am about to complete my masters in physics. I wish to work on long term theoretical physics problems that do not seem to be possible under the current publish-or-perish academic system. The plan was to complete a PhD, then leave academia, but lately I have been having severe doubts about continuing onto a…

Completing your PhD would give you credence, being taken seriously even if you are right can be an issue (and justifiably so, evaluating new ideas take time and lots of cranks come up with new ideas). Also making contact in academia certainly can't be bad.

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if some rich people could start a form of charity where they just pay a few incredibly brilliant people a good salary to go do whatever research they want for the rest of their lives. Sort of like patronage. Just bypass the whole grant funding cycle and work on whatever you want, because you're a genius and want to study things other people don't like or understand.

The problem with education/science/welfare by charity is that it doesn't scale as well and isn't as stable as societal contracts. A developed country can be recognised by the fact that the society doesn't rely on the goodwill of the rich.

Another issue with relying on charity is that there is often strings attached to the money donated. We really want to allow students, scientists, engineers, etc. to have agency, not be under some wealthy person's patronage.

Re: The present phase of stagnation in the foundations of physics is not normal

#180
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument you are making assumes two things that strike me as highly implausible: (1) That enough people would use their new free time to innovate instead of just watching TV or playing World of Warcraft or something like that. (2) That enough people would still choose to do the unpleasant but necessary tasks that provide the resources needed for everyone to eat, have housing, etc. Not to mention all the other stu…

I don't know why you find it implausible given that there are plenty of people who already do both those things while having enough money not to.

How many is "plenty"? What percentage of people who have enough money not to do those things actually do them?

My sense is that that percentage is pretty low. Yes, there are people like pg or sama who continue to work and add value even though they don't have to, and I think that's an admirable thing to do. But I think there are many more people who, once they have enough wealth to not have to work, stop working for good and don't produce anything after that.

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