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The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

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Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#261

Post by cbkeller »

cutler wrote: post #254
lubujackson wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so illogical. For one, who is going to build these properties for low-income people only? Costs will be almost the same, profits will be way less. So why would a developer bother? In fact, the recent change to require a higher percentage of low income units in new structures has killed the pipeline for new building starts. Even if it seems counterproductive to the goal of helping low income people, historical…

You're thinking purely within a capitalist framework. There is no capitalist solution to this problem. The solution is unprofitable. I encourage you to think outside this framework as humanity itself is at stake not just profits.

Ok, so I could imagine rent control would work fine in (e.g.) the bay area if there was also (1) Government-built (or heavily subsidized) housing to get around the fact that rent control limits the capitalist demand for new housing (2) Strong central government to force out NIMBYs for the greater social good

In this context, would you agree that rent control seems counterproductive unless we were to switch to a socialized economy overall?

> There is no capitalist solution to this problem.

I'm curious if others here would agree with this; I don't have a strong opinion yet.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#262

Post by pcwalton »

cutler wrote: post #164
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

Simple. Put a ceiling on rents. Allow no-one to own more than one home and insist they live in the one they own. In the UK we have a "bedroom tax" but it is aimed at the poor, not the rich as it should be. Make it illegal to discriminate against anyone based on their income source or the state of their health. Build housing exclusively for low-income occupants instead of throwing everything onto the insidious propert…

In this utopia, if you want to move into SF for work, then what happens, specifically?

Is it like Vienna, where you go on a wait list?

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#263

Post by pcwalton »

cutler wrote: post #253
hackeraccount wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations increase the value of goods and services by creating predictability. Competition reduces the cost of goods.

So spake Adam Smith. Sorry but the Invisible Hand is a fairy tale.

You know who disagrees with you on that? Karl Marx.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#264

Post by dragonwriter »

cutler wrote: post #164
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

Simple. Put a ceiling on rents. Allow no-one to own more than one home and insist they live in the one they own. In the UK we have a "bedroom tax" but it is aimed at the poor, not the rich as it should be. Make it illegal to discriminate against anyone based on their income source or the state of their health. Build housing exclusively for low-income occupants instead of throwing everything onto the insidious propert…

> Put a ceiling on rents. Allow no-one to own more than one home and insist they live in the one they own.

Doesn't the latter make the former moot, or is this a limit on rent of spare rooms in owner-occupied housing?

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#265

Post by DoreenMichele »

Alex63 wrote: post #104
spookthesunset wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> endless money pits The reason they are money pits is because they aren't something that will be solved by a city or even a state. Any attempt to solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area. The most effective way for a city or state to "solve" the local homeless problem is to simply pay for one-way bus tickets to somewhere else. But…

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

I think we need to restructure tax incentives related to housing and diversify our policies and finance mechanisms related to housing.

In a nutshell, the vast majority of our policies and programs related to housing are designed to support single family detached housing designed for a nuclear family or rentals that mirror that to a large degree. We created such systems practically overnight at the end of WW2. We have fleshed it out and tweaked it since then, but the underlying assumptions and mental models have remained largely the same. Meanwhile, reality has changed and what worked for the famines that became the parents of the Baby Boomers no longer really works, yet we aren't adapting.

(Source: I was specifically studying housing and housing policy and history in hopes of becoming an urban planner when life got in the way.)

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#266

Post by nradov »

lubujackson wrote: post #212
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

There aren't good solutions, only ugly ones that we've gotten rid of in the name of free will and self-reliance. To start, Reagan gutted the mental health system so that people who need life-long mental health support were more or less dumped on the streets. It also meant people who could get jobs and have a normal life with some support began to end up on the streets when things broke wrong for them. So bringing bac…

The military doesn't want such people anymore. Most recovering addicts can't pass current physical, mental, and educational standards for recruiting. But some kind of non-military jobs program would be helpful.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#268

Post by RoboTeddy »

spookthesunset wrote: post #95
crooked-v wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suddenly we get very "every person for themselves" the second homelessness has a price tag. A confounding factor involved here is that many government strategies for dealing with the homeless are endless money pits without noticeable results. I think a lot of people would be more comfortable with their tax dollars going to that purpose if they didn't feel like nothing was actually happening from it.

> endless money pits The reason they are money pits is because they aren't something that will be solved by a city or even a state. Any attempt to solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area. The most effective way for a city or state to "solve" the local homeless problem is to simply pay for one-way bus tickets to somewhere else. But…

> Any attempt to solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area.

I thought this too, but it turns out that despite San Francisco's relatively high expenditures on homeless, only 10% of the homeless population was living out of state at the time they became homeless. (http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Poin...)

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#269

Post by dahdum »

vikeri wrote: post #200
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

In comparison to SF/LA/NY etc. we have very few homeless people in Scandinavia. If I were to speculate then I think our extensive social security systems (free healthcare & education etc.) is the reason why. But then we all pay 30-55 % tax on our income to fund that social security.

Your area also has the highest rates of compulsory mental health hospitalization in Europe. To do so in the US would likely not be constitutional.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#270

Post by conanbatt »

spookthesunset wrote: post #95
crooked-v wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suddenly we get very "every person for themselves" the second homelessness has a price tag. A confounding factor involved here is that many government strategies for dealing with the homeless are endless money pits without noticeable results. I think a lot of people would be more comfortable with their tax dollars going to that purpose if they didn't feel like nothing was actually happening from it.

> endless money pits The reason they are money pits is because they aren't something that will be solved by a city or even a state. Any attempt to solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area. The most effective way for a city or state to "solve" the local homeless problem is to simply pay for one-way bus tickets to somewhere else. But…

> solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area

I agree with this idea, but i was shocked to see that San Francisco is a net-exporter of homeless people. That really points to some other root cause.

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