Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 183 posts

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#131

Post by dcbadacd »

kakarot wrote: post #124
nine_k wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that color-based codes have more density per "pixel" (2-3 bits), so they can be used to encode relatively large amounts of information. Try encoding 1kb as a QR code; it will become pretty unwieldy, if it's possible at all. Think about the size of a reasonable cryptographic public key; would it be nice to have it optically readable sometimes? Tagging things during manufacture is a different application area…

A B/W randomart image which uses alphanumeric and special characters, like the one used in ssh-keygen itself when generating keys, would be enough. With current tech, Adding colors is just a recipe for disaster in environments which need maximum reliability. Personally, I think QR codes are just fine for manufacturing but as for encodings meant for end-users, I think we should be focusing on making them more human-re…

Some kind of symmetry would already really enhance how nice QR codes look to people.

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#133

Post by pygy_ »

People here seem to think that this is someone's weekend project, not the result of serious engineering from an institute of the Fraunhofer Society (which it is).

The spec can be found at https://www.bsi.bund.de/EN/Publications/TechnicalGuidelines/... (63 pages, the BSI is the German Federal Office for Information Security, a government agency), and this is slated to become an ISO standard.

Here's the Google translation (original in German provided somewhere else by @JdeBP) of an article introducing the tech:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u...

I agree with others that the master/slave terminology is unfortunate in new tech like this. Otherwise this looks pretty good.

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#134

Post by tomp »

pygy_ wrote: post #129
tomp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people cannot separate the abstract concept of slavery to the actual historical happening. Personally, I want to be a master to my mechanical slaves (tools, dishwashers, computers, robots) and can't wait for a future where machine-slavery is so pervasive that no humans need to work anymore.

I'm not rooting for a future where human labor is obsolete. Why would the machines continue to feed us if we're dead weight to the economy?

I am. Why do the washing machines keep washing pensioners' clothes, if they're dead weight to the economy? Because we (the intelligent / sentient / human civilisation) decided so.

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#135

Post by tedivm »

tomp wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would you choose to use the term mechanical slave for your dishwasher except to be deliberatively provocative? The term "machine" is perfectly fine. You're actually choosing to be offensive for the sake of being offensive. Please stop.

I prefer the term "slave" because it implies (hopefully) no free will (and hence no capacity to disobey). At least I hope that's how AI turns out. You're finding offense for the sake of finding offense and being censorious for the sake of being censorious. Please stop.

You're breaking a rule of this site- you should assume good faith when talking to other people on here. There is no evidence that anyone wants to be "censorious for the sake of being censorious"- even if you don't agree with the reasoning behind this discussion it doesn't change the fact that people have put forward reasons.

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#136

Post by tedivm »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #47
tomp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people cannot separate the abstract concept of slavery to the actual historical happening. Personally, I want to be a master to my mechanical slaves (tools, dishwashers, computers, robots) and can't wait for a future where machine-slavery is so pervasive that no humans need to work anymore.

Yup, it's censorship for the sake of censorship. We've had zero problems with master/slave terminology for decades because everyone dealing with it was cognizant enough to realize we weren't talking about human bondage. Then people who are incapable of compartmentalizing word connotations came in and declared their use "problematic" and demand everyone conform to their worldview and to waste time changing code commen…

I'm downvoting you not because I'm upset and offended, but because you're breaking the rules of this site with this post. One of the rules here is that you must assume "good faith" in conversation with people, but instead you're accusing people of wanting "censorship for the sake of censorship". While you may not agree with the reasons people advocate for this change, they are presenting reasons and there is no evidence that those reasons are made up simply to mask a desire to censor people.

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#137

Post by deathanatos »

divan wrote: post #56

I wonder what throughput it can give when used as an animated sequence of codes? I experimented with animated QRs for data transfer last week and the real maximum I’ve achieved was around 9KB/s. https://divan.github.io/posts/animatedqr Using colored high-capacity encoding should yield much better results, given the decoder is as fast as QR one.

Neat! I've always been a fan of these "low-tech" (not involving complicated radio protocols like Bluetooth that inevitably seem to never work) transmission protocols. I kinda wish something like what you built was more widely supported, so I could transfer files between my phone and OS X. (Which both have Bluetooth, yet it never works. So I upload to Drive.)

Similarly, but with audio[1]: http://www.whence.com/minimodem/

[1]: (and yes, I know this is how it "used" to be done / I am old enough to remember it.)

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#138

Post by nayuki »

nine_k wrote: post #117
nimbius wrote: post #91

for those decrying the limited use of 2d barcodes in the US or in europe, you've never set foot in a manufacturing environment. 2d barcodes are used for cradle-to-grave inventory tracking by systems like Glovia and SAP. everything from transmission gears to soda pop are tagged during manufacture with numerous 2d barcodes that change at different stations, and at different times. it doesnt matter what your new standar…

I suppose that color-based codes have more density per "pixel" (2-3 bits), so they can be used to encode relatively large amounts of information. Try encoding 1kb as a QR code; it will become pretty unwieldy, if it's possible at all. Think about the size of a reasonable cryptographic public key; would it be nice to have it optically readable sometimes? Tagging things during manufacture is a different application area…

> Think about the size of a reasonable cryptographic public key; would it be nice to have it optically readable sometimes?

An ECDSA key would be 256 bits or 32 bytes long. At low error correction, it can fit into QR Code version 2 (21×21 modules). Or if you're thinking of RSA, then a 2048-bit key would fit in version 10 (57×57).

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#139

Post by jf »

Confiks wrote: post #54

To copy a comment from a Github issue [1], comparing the different implementations: - CRONTO, PM-Code and HCCB and AuthPaper are proprietary. CRONTO has attracted some usage mainly by banks, PM-Code looks like vaporware, AuthPaper seems inactive and HCCB is dead [2]. - CobraKing seems to be a 2012 research project, unmaintained - HCC2D seems to be mainly academic exploration Papers and results similar to HCC2D pop up…

Thanks for doing this research! I've long dreamed of making a "print to binary to paper" backup system, but all the 2D barcodes I considered had patent encumbrances.

Re: JAB Code – A high-capacity 2D color bar code

#140

Post by jungler »

1ris wrote: post #112
PhrosTT wrote: post #43

What's the capacity of this thing? Don't see it anywhere obvious.

It's on page 13 of the spec. Up to 27kb.

It's actually indefinite by adding more slave blocks, the spec example shows how this works up to 60 blocks, but the algorithm holds beyond that.
Post reply on HN