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Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

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Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#21

Post by School-Cotton »

pedrocr wrote: post #12

When I buy a laptop I install whatever is the latest version of Ubuntu on it and am done. When I buy an access point I install whatever is the latest version of OpenWrt on it and am done. I've tried to do the same thing with phones using LineageOS but it's hopeless. Devices are often half broken and are never guaranteed to continue being supported because of this kernel mess. It seems there's slow progress being made…

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#22

Post by izacus »

bubblethink wrote: post #14

I'll believe that real progress has been made when google updates the major kernel version for a phone. No OEM (AFAIK) has ever done a kernel (major version) bump.

The article actually addresses that - why would Google (or Samsung or anyone really) risk device issues by doing this kind of upgrade? What is there to gain on a running device except angry users due to breakages of already working functionality?

There's an upwards trend of people DISABLING updates because they tend to break tools they use in daily lives.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#23

Post by mixedCase »

School-Cotton wrote: post #21
pedrocr wrote: post #12

When I buy a laptop I install whatever is the latest version of Ubuntu on it and am done. When I buy an access point I install whatever is the latest version of OpenWrt on it and am done. I've tried to do the same thing with phones using LineageOS but it's hopeless. Devices are often half broken and are never guaranteed to continue being supported because of this kernel mess. It seems there's slow progress being made…

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

It's all about tradeoffs, Android phones getting updates usually means the phone gets faster as opposed to ever closer to unusably slow.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#24

Post by mitchty »

mixedCase wrote: post #23
School-Cotton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

It's all about tradeoffs, Android phones getting updates usually means the phone gets faster as opposed to ever closer to unusably slow .

> It's all about tradeoffs, Android phones getting updates usually means the phone gets faster as opposed to ever closer to unusably slow.

You say this like it is unique to android, iOS 12 was basically the same. And I can say from friends experiences, its not always true for all android phones.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#25

Post by dcbadacd »

It would also be really nice if common distributions finally considered creating feature+architecture-based repositories, small improvements that you get by creating more specific binaries really sum up on mobile/low-powered devices. It does require more effort (and money for storage, compilation) though.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#26

Post by baybal2 »

fffrantz wrote: post #20
bubblethink wrote: post #14

I'll believe that real progress has been made when google updates the major kernel version for a phone. No OEM (AFAIK) has ever done a kernel (major version) bump.

Honestly, it's extremely difficult to update the kernel since it's usually tied to the BSP the SoC vendor is providing. Also, you gotta keep in mind the difficulties associated with the lazy 3rd parties providing drivers for a single kernel version, making updates almost impossible. -- Disclosure : I work for an OEM as a system architect, and it's been one of my goals to try and get newer kernel versions running. (Su…

Doing so will require a complete shift of responsibilities for parties involved. I myself witnessed many "brains being broken" scenes when somebody tries to explain why Linux kernel development being done for "free", to men with educational background in business.

In the end, you will never be successful doing so, be sure 99%. But whether they understood the bigger picture of things or not, technical needs need to supersede business needs, or that tech business will not work.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#27

Post by chipotle_coyote »

mixedCase wrote: post #23
School-Cotton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

It's all about tradeoffs, Android phones getting updates usually means the phone gets faster as opposed to ever closer to unusably slow .

Anecdotally, iOS 11 made my iPhone 6 run slower than iOS 10, but iOS 12 made it run faster than iOS 10. (This is in line with other reports and benchmarks you'll find if you go looking.) There's an awful lot of snark about iOS slowing down with each successive version, but I'm not at all convinced it's universally true. (Again, anecdotally, I'd say iOS 7 and 9–11 were guilty of that.)

At any rate, the big issue I tend to hear about Android phones getting updates is "my Android phone isn't getting updates." My iPhone 6 shipped in 2014, and iOS 12 actually ran on 2013's iPhone 5s. How many Android phones that shipped before 2016 are getting Android P? Are there Android phones that shipped in 2016 that aren't?

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#28

Post by pedrocr »

School-Cotton wrote: post #21
pedrocr wrote: post #12

When I buy a laptop I install whatever is the latest version of Ubuntu on it and am done. When I buy an access point I install whatever is the latest version of OpenWrt on it and am done. I've tried to do the same thing with phones using LineageOS but it's hopeless. Devices are often half broken and are never guaranteed to continue being supported because of this kernel mess. It seems there's slow progress being made…

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

You do nothing of the sort. You're buying a specific combination of hardware and software that may or may not get upgrades and security fixes over time, just like any Android phone. Apple just has a much better track record at doing that than any Android vendor.

On the other hand when I buy a laptop or an access point I just do minimal checking of supported hardware in case there's something that's very exotic and then I get to install whatever software I want for however long I want to keep the hardware in service. For the HN crowd this should be worrying. Mobile is the #1 hardware platform by unit volume and there's no way we can actually target these devices sensibly.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#29

Post by pdimitar »

mixedCase wrote: post #23
School-Cotton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

It's all about tradeoffs, Android phones getting updates usually means the phone gets faster as opposed to ever closer to unusably slow .

People love to latch onto the outlier cases when an iPhone gets slower or half-broken after an update. For the last 5-6 years however, everyone I asked told me that their iPhone and iPad either gets a bit smoother or stays the same after a new iOS.

So please don't imply iOS updates brings iDevices "ever closer to unusably slow" because that's very non-factual.

Re: Bringing the Android kernel back to the mainline

#30

Post by pdimitar »

pedrocr wrote: post #28
School-Cotton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy a phone I install whatever is the latest version of iOS on it and am done ;)

You do nothing of the sort. You're buying a specific combination of hardware and software that may or may not get upgrades and security fixes over time, just like any Android phone. Apple just has a much better track record at doing that than any Android vendor. On the other hand when I buy a laptop or an access point I just do minimal checking of supported hardware in case there's something that's very exotic and th…

> You do nothing of the sort. You're buying a specific combination of hardware and software that may or may not get upgrades and security fixes over time

Bringing in strictly theoretical supposition which is directly at odds with what's historically been a very solid track record from Apple isn't doing your argument any favours. Unless I misunderstood you.

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