Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#41

Post by travisjungroth »

ben_w wrote: post #29
peteretep wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the consensual As a species, we’ve pretty universally said that some humans can’t legally/morally consent. A prisoner can’t consent to sex with their captors, even if they want to. A minor can’t consent to sex with an adult, even if they want to. In short, I think declaring this as consensual is in question, rather than assumed. The power disparity here is huge between human and dolphin, in this context.

Because I have never found the topic at all disturbing, a lot of zoos have come out to me (two on hacker news, even!). As a result, really terrible arguments about this topic, pro and con, are something I’ve seen far too much of. The topic of consent also ties in with one of my AI philosophy interests: what counts as a mind capable of being wronged. I don’t know the answer. Suffering? What is that, though? We can all…

> I would be vegan if I had more self control.

Don't know the last time you tried, but the world of dairy substitutes (at least for me in San Francisco) is much better than five years ago, and incredibly better than ten years ago.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#42

Post by peteretep »

ben_w wrote: post #29
peteretep wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the consensual As a species, we’ve pretty universally said that some humans can’t legally/morally consent. A prisoner can’t consent to sex with their captors, even if they want to. A minor can’t consent to sex with an adult, even if they want to. In short, I think declaring this as consensual is in question, rather than assumed. The power disparity here is huge between human and dolphin, in this context.

Because I have never found the topic at all disturbing, a lot of zoos have come out to me (two on hacker news, even!). As a result, really terrible arguments about this topic, pro and con, are something I’ve seen far too much of. The topic of consent also ties in with one of my AI philosophy interests: what counts as a mind capable of being wronged. I don’t know the answer. Suffering? What is that, though? We can all…

While I think many concentrated farming methods _do_ cause suffering, I don't think animal suffering is necessary a requisite of humans eating meat.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#43

Post by jessaustin »

HocusLocus wrote: post #14

Here are the remains of Dolphin House, https://zoom.earth/#18.318131,-64.859424,19z,sat We used to sail past it in the 1970s, and the buildings were abandoned but had roofs then. Back in 2011 there were plans to develop the area but I guess they fell through. Back then the risque part of the story was well known, though the LSD experiments were not. They had it all backwards, the LSD should have generated an outcry i…

Mammals are similar enough that the scent of female human would surely provoke such a response.

This couldn't possibly be correct. Female humans don't need to worry about e.g. amorous stallions, bulls, or even male chimpanzees. The fact that sexual relations of some sort have occasionally taken place between different species doesn't make anything about it "sure". If it were, mammals would waste a lot of time and energy on behavior that does not contribute to genetic fitness. Besides dolphins don't have olfactory nerves.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#44

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Balero wrote: post #36
mlevental wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you saying it's not non-consensual sex because the point is not for the horse to enjoy it but it is non-sensual sex with the dolphin because the point is for the dolphin to enjoy it.

I'm saying that intent informs morality. eg: Murder and Man Slaughter.

The intent here seems to have been to discover if the dolphin could get high.

The shocking thing is the way that Lilly started with the assumption that dolphins were sentient and worth communicating with, and ended with "It's just a dumb animal, so why should we care how it feels?"

The turning point seems to have been the observation that it didn't start turning cartwheels - metaphorically or otherwise - when dosed up on acid.

Basically he dismissed it when it didn't turn into an acid freak - ignoring the fact that it was demonstrating curiosity, the ability to relate and form attachments, and many human-like elements of language.

All of which were far more convincing as evidence of real sentience, and more worthy of research, than the fact that it failed to trip balls on cue.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#45

Post by ben_w »

travisjungroth wrote: post #41
ben_w wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have never found the topic at all disturbing, a lot of zoos have come out to me (two on hacker news, even!). As a result, really terrible arguments about this topic, pro and con, are something I’ve seen far too much of. The topic of consent also ties in with one of my AI philosophy interests: what counts as a mind capable of being wronged. I don’t know the answer. Suffering? What is that, though? We can all…

> I would be vegan if I had more self control. Don't know the last time you tried, but the world of dairy substitutes (at least for me in San Francisco) is much better than five years ago, and incredibly better than ten years ago.

Definitely — in Europe too — but I still fail. I try new vegan cheese substitutes every time I see a new one in the shops. All of them in the UK have been worse than plain bread.

On the other hand, soy milk comes in many good flavours now, both in the UK and Germany, as does soy yoghurt.

My biggest weakness is where non-vegan stuff is an ingredient: cake (eggs, milk), chocolate (milk), bread often has milk powder too.

It is getting easier though.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#46

Post by [deleted] »

nerdponx wrote: post #27
coldtea wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word. That's perhaps a city thing. In farms people did similar things (to cows etc) all the time as part of routine job.

Yup. This is literally where milk comes from.

[deleted]

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#47

Post by ben_w »

peteretep wrote: post #42
ben_w wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have never found the topic at all disturbing, a lot of zoos have come out to me (two on hacker news, even!). As a result, really terrible arguments about this topic, pro and con, are something I’ve seen far too much of. The topic of consent also ties in with one of my AI philosophy interests: what counts as a mind capable of being wronged. I don’t know the answer. Suffering? What is that, though? We can all…

While I think many concentrated farming methods _do_ cause suffering, I don't think animal suffering is necessary a requisite of humans eating meat.

Sure, but in the case of animals with the capacity to suffer, that would only be true in the same circumstances that human cannibalism would fail to cause suffering. (Well, sans the disease risk to the consumer).

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#48

Post by Angostura »

jessaustin wrote: post #43
HocusLocus wrote: post #14

Here are the remains of Dolphin House, https://zoom.earth/#18.318131,-64.859424,19z,sat We used to sail past it in the 1970s, and the buildings were abandoned but had roofs then. Back in 2011 there were plans to develop the area but I guess they fell through. Back then the risque part of the story was well known, though the LSD experiments were not. They had it all backwards, the LSD should have generated an outcry i…

Mammals are similar enough that the scent of female human would surely provoke such a response. This couldn't possibly be correct. Female humans don't need to worry about e.g. amorous stallions, bulls, or even male chimpanzees. The fact that sexual relations of some sort have occasionally taken place between different species doesn't make anything about it "sure". If it were, mammals would waste a lot of time and ene…

Weirdly when working in the Peruvian rainforest we did have to warn women about an amorous tapir. He would become very boisterous and would also come into camp and take knickers off the washing line.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#50

Post by hammock »

ben_w wrote: post #45
travisjungroth wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be vegan if I had more self control. Don't know the last time you tried, but the world of dairy substitutes (at least for me in San Francisco) is much better than five years ago, and incredibly better than ten years ago.

Definitely — in Europe too — but I still fail. I try new vegan cheese substitutes every time I see a new one in the shops. All of them in the UK have been worse than plain bread. On the other hand, soy milk comes in many good flavours now, both in the UK and Germany, as does soy yoghurt. My biggest weakness is where non-vegan stuff is an ingredient: cake (eggs, milk), chocolate (milk), bread often has milk powder too…

Milk is not necessary in cake, chocolate or bread.
Post reply on HN