Seems like you learned the hard way that social skills are an important part of thriving in a social hierarchy.
I recommend you read books on how to deal with people.
Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
81–90 of 139 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the OP is an unreliable narrator, then you shouldn't assume the guy isn't a snake, either. I have seen the case you're wary of: a technical, but poorly communicating, employee that resents the success of a well-meaning, less technical but better communicating coworker. I have seen good people like that, and I have seen snakes that pull the "we/I" as in the OP's story.
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Generally, I don't see a lot of these "snakes" out in the real world, but I see a tremendous amount of misunderstandings, resentment, and righteous indignation. As I told the OP elsewhere, we're all the hero of our own stories, and everyone we disagree with is a villain. But ask the villain, and they think they're the hero. It's human nature. We don't want…
Stupidity and malice can often be two sides of the same coin. I once worked with an individual who shot down a project idea, but then executed it in secret for two weeks before revealing it as his pet project. After confronting him, he initially did not understand why this was deceitful. It took 3-4 conversations before he finally understood and sincerely apologized. He felt he was simply being competitive and that everyone did these types of things.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#83I never heard anything about incompetence in your description. Technical debt can build up for myriad reasons not related much to competence. What I would suggest is not to approach this situation as how you can wall off or otherwise attack this person but, instead as a life lesson on the importance of interpersonal relationships and politics. Politics are a fact of life. Humans are social creatures. All things being…
This is an excellent break down of OP's situation, which seems very common in tech. > make it known This was the hardest "part" of working in a company for me to understand and execute on, especially when reporting to a non-technical supervisor. The thing is they simply don't know where to look or what to lookout for to give us accolades. It isn't as hard as we make it out to be, either. It can be as simple as "I mad…
Even technical managers have hard time understanding technology they are not familiar with.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#84Who are you to judge another's competence?
By what standard?
Your expectations are yours alone, unless you are tasked by the business to analyze and optimize.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#85I've been in a similar situation and can relate to most of what you've described. In my case, I pointed it out to upper management multiple times but they failed to take action. I left the organization eventually.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#86I never heard anything about incompetence in your description. Technical debt can build up for myriad reasons not related much to competence. What I would suggest is not to approach this situation as how you can wall off or otherwise attack this person but, instead as a life lesson on the importance of interpersonal relationships and politics. Politics are a fact of life. Humans are social creatures. All things being…
Yes I agree with you, the point is that being technical person doing a technical job I thought that the value that I create will talk more than the nonsense of some people. As I like to act first and share later, but there are people who talk but don't know how to act properly. I can build this skills as you said, true, but in my position now it would be impossible to get a promotion as the available spot has been ta…
The root problem is that there are too many idiots in management positions; they can't see through all the bullshit.
Also, there are too many dumb investors; our entire global economy runs on dumb money. Don't waste your time trying to create value;
let other people create the value and focus all your energy on capturing that value.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#87I toiled like you seem to be for a long time, cleaning up technical debt, and writing well-architected (but very time-consuming) code. I learned a few things (things I have to remind myself of often, when I too feel the anger rising at people who don't place the same priority on those things): The business is almost never paying to you clean up technical debt. They are paying you to generate revenue (or save costs).…
> They are paying you to generate revenue (or save costs).
One of the senior engineers in my company once told me, "business is the dog, technology its tail", not the other way around. While I later argued with a completely different set of engineers that the analogy isn't great, the gist of the idea remains valid: we shouldn't be building beautiful technology just for the sake of it. Rather, we should be building technology that will serve the business best, while balancing out short-term and long-term gains.
> Dealing with Humans (incompetent and otherwise) is actually what most of us get paid for
This is so true as well. I often realize that the problems I solve at work aren't exactly rocket-science. However, I have learned a bit about effectively interacting with humans, and that is probably more important to my company than my pure technical skills.
I didn't have any of these skills and I am still learning. However, I'd HIGHLY recommend the following "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change" for anyone wanting to learn soft skills.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it a poem or you're just missing capital letters and punctuation?
just missing capital letters and punctuation (maybe stream of consciousness posting isn't the way to go)
Are you aware that it's difficult to get your message from such form and some people might ignore your posts?
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#89Some great advice already in this thread.
To add on to it
I'm reading that you don't like your new manager. 2 option s are to go above his head and become his boss or find a new job
If you decide finding a new job is your move then I recommend using some of the advice here to sell your accomplishments and ability to lead to acquire the position and authority you want.
Politics do happen but there are people who have the necessary "no bullshit" political attitude that keeps others in check. If you are that person then get the authority to execute that prerogative and improve people's lives.
Tech culture tends to forget the interpersonal side of careers which is critical for advancing goals.
Have you taken the StrengthsFinder assessment before? https://www.gallupstrengthscenter.com/
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with incompetent people
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I agree with you, the point is that being technical person doing a technical job I thought that the value that I create will talk more than the nonsense of some people. As I like to act first and share later, but there are people who talk but don't know how to act properly. I can build this skills as you said, true, but in my position now it would be impossible to get a promotion as the available spot has been ta…
>I thought that the value that I create will talk more than the nonsense of some people. Nope. Silence is always less noticeable than noise. Evil prevails when good men do nothing. Also, nonsense fluff prevails when good work isn't spoken of. You have a professional duty to make sure nonsense is crowded out by important information. No one is going to do that for you. Follow the rule of three...tell people what you a…
> Follow the rule of three...tell people what you are going to do and why it is important. Tell people what you are doing. Tell people what you've done. And not just anybody; decision makers.
An interesting corollary: Find out what's bothering decision makers. What're their annual or quarterly (or whatever) goals? If you know what those are - not only can you say "Hey, by the way, I did what I'm being paid to do, but, by the way, it helps to address that thing that's been bugging you."