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Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#71

Post by ankitml »

johnydepp wrote: post #24

Over the past few months I have been trying to figure out a solution for environmental issues in developing countries (like India where I'm from). Conclusion is, because of the democracy, the change is not possible from inside, some external force has to be there. Here governments take decision for the short term because they have to please the common (& uneducated) men for the next election. Hence the agenda of envi…

Here in Canada, the provincial government of Ontario is dismantling the environmental protection apparatus piece by piece in the name of democracy and pleasing some section of people. We do have a lot more education, so there has to be something else. I think it is all about what is the general population (or some section of it values more). Right now environment is not at the top because something else is.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#72

Post by vixen99 »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #42
ryanmercer wrote: post #2

We need to get our heads out of our asses. I don't want to be that guy but... we either need to radically change the way we live or 90% of us just need to immediately cease to exist although I'm sure the remaining 750 million people would still find ways to sabotage our planet. 'SHTF' fiction and science fiction often turns to a pandemic wiping out large chunks of the population... that would be bad for you, for me,…

Well, there are things you can do. Earth Strike is one such very recent phenomenon that has organized that directly addresses failures of capitalism that is and has caused environmental collapse. They have direct demands (unlike Occupy that had none). They have direct action days already organized (January 15, 2019 ; April 27, 2019 ; August 1, 2019 ; September 27, 2019). The group already has international interest a…

And what do you intend to do via your Direct Action? No clue in the links you've given.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#73

Post by mav3rick »

nurzo wrote: post #63

If you can't convince Indians not to shit on the streets, good luck explaining to them what throwing plastic bags in the river does to the planet as a whole. With this I'm not saying that Indians will always be dirty, but a loooong time will pass until reeducation is successful, so we have to think of other, more direct (and aggressive) ways.

To anyone reading this, no a billion people don't shit on the streets of India. India is a young democracy bursting at the seams, education is probably the most important challenge it faces right now and my hope is that it alleviates a lot of these issues.

To your point about plastic bags, many many people are cognizant of the ill-effects of plastic bags in India. Many of my friends actively try to avoid it. It's just that when you're a developing nation or minority everyone talks in blanket statements than nuanced views like "rural India" or "10% of Northern India", it has to be all "Indians shitting on streets". Whereas, some flaw in the developed countries is always attributed to the actual states where there is a problem rather than all of the population.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#74

Post by isostatic »

baobrain wrote: post #44
ajmurmann wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polluting the planet for everyone should be the main reason for punitive international measures (sanctions, etc)

Perhaps a different way of viewing it is developing countries' polluting enables the high living standards in the developed world. Who is then responsible?

Sanctions that charge per ton of plastic discharged

This means that the owner of the river either 1) Stops plastic entering the river 2) Charges for plastic entering it - passed on to the developed world through higher costs 3) Filters at the mouth of the river

Egypt can invite international organisations to measure the plastic entering the Nile at Aswan and leaving post Cairo. Sudan can do the same with the borders with South Sudan and Ethiopia (from memory), and so on.

How much would it cost to filter the discharge of these rivers to withdraw even just half the plastic? Is it even possible?

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#75

Post by NeedMoreTea »

nostromo wrote: post #49
MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

82% of people who quote statistics get them wrong. From your article: > A recent study estimates that more than a quarter of all that waste could be pouring in from just 10 rivers, eight of them in Asia. The 93% stat relates to just rivers as a source of plastic pollution. > rivers collectively dump anywhere from 0.47 million to 2.75 million metric tons of plastic into the seas every year, depending on the data used…

You’re right about that article — however when looking at all marine plastic pollution, the countries responsible are the same: most notably China and South East Asia. https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most... https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting...

The West pays China and SE Asia to make millions of tons of plastic for manufacturing the products we buy. The West sends millions of tons of plastic product "for recycling".

"China and South East Asia is responsible".

You see no contradiction there? I sure as heck do. The West, including my own country and citizens, are just as responsible.

Supply chains try (and fail oftentimes) to ensure child labour is not used. Why not pollution, environmental standards or CO2? It's not like the atmosphere and oceans respect borders.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#76

Post by vwcx »

Frye wrote: post #4

Are there any clean up projects going on at the major gyres shown in the article? Seems like that would be a good place to start.

Cleaning up gyres are important, but realize that when one removes trash from a gyre, more is back the next day. Stopping production is the most important first-step.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#77

Post by [deleted] »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #75
nostromo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right about that article — however when looking at all marine plastic pollution, the countries responsible are the same: most notably China and South East Asia. https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most... https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting...

The West pays China and SE Asia to make millions of tons of plastic for manufacturing the products we buy. The West sends millions of tons of plastic product "for recycling". "China and South East Asia is responsible". You see no contradiction there? I sure as heck do. The West, including my own country and citizens, are just as responsible. Supply chains try (and fail oftentimes) to ensure child labour is not used.…

[deleted]

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#78

Post by notahacker »

_ptgt wrote: post #53
mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the bottom most level it really does boil down to education and awareness. One could argue they go hand in hand. Even in western nations being educated is not enough, you must be aware of your actions. This is why I always point at legislation as the most effective means of getting anything done. Lead by example through innovation, investment into sustainable tech, methods and living and pass legislation that does…

Coming from someone who agrees with supports environmental initiatives on e.g. plastic management and climate change, I always find it condescending and insensitive when people assume political differences will be resolved by "educating" the other side. It's difficult to know how Indians would behave in an alternate universe where environmental awareness was a higher priority, but I don't find it hard to believe at a…

One of the first things you notice upon visiting developing countries is that household waste is often dumped in very visible places where it tends to spread naturally and easily, including near watercourses used for drinking. With consumer waste it's less the gains of industrialisation (after all, they consume a lot less than us) and more a lack of interest in ensuring it's dumped further away from their homes and water supplies. Pre-industrial European societies generally saw absolutely nothing strange about dumping excrement literally outside their front doorsteps, so it's not as if we can claim any longstanding cultural obsession with cleanliness either.

Having the resources to deal with clearing it up is certainly part of the equation, and clearly there are still many people in developed countries that happily litter and sneer at the concept of recycling, but I think it's a stretch to say that environmental education and campaigning doesn't have a significant effect on attitudes.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#79

Post by spark3k »

erikig wrote: post #11

Just for comparison 6kg of plastic in a 60 ton animal is the same as 6g of plastic in a 60kg organism (or a little above one teaspoon of plastic ingested by a teenager).

That's a plastic shopping bag. Try swallowing a plastic shopping bag.

Re: Dead sperm whale found in Indonesia had ingested '6kg of plastic'

#80

Post by paulddraper »

johnydepp wrote: post #24

Over the past few months I have been trying to figure out a solution for environmental issues in developing countries (like India where I'm from). Conclusion is, because of the democracy, the change is not possible from inside, some external force has to be there. Here governments take decision for the short term because they have to please the common (& uneducated) men for the next election. Hence the agenda of envi…

> And most importantly, large & impactful countries like US and China shouldn't waste their time on petty issues like trade-war & focus on big issue here!

Agreed with much of what you said, but this is a bit irrelevant for Indian environmental policy, no?

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