No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250 • Hacker News Board

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#201

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

avar wrote: post #191

simias wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I know next to nothing about these regulations but what do you mean by "cost/benefit" exactly? Surely if these rules are meant to fight (directly or indirectly) organized crime then you can't just judge them on the amount of money saved? If you spend $10 millions to prevent $1 million to reach a terrorist organization, can't you consider it money well spent?

FATCA is about making non-US financial institutions report to the IRS et al about holdings of US citizens abroad. Worrying about terrorist cells in foreign countries made up of U.S. citizens is absurd.

FATCA is the stick used to dissuade tax evasion by US citizens. If people think they can evade taxes successfully, they will. Whether this impacts Bitcoin or other crypto is inconsequential.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#202

Post by perardi » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #67

simias wrote: post #20

Since the article states "the trigger for the latest sell-off is unclear" I'm really curious if somebody here could venture a guess about the reasons for the sudden drop. The Bitcoin Cash fork seems suspiciously correlated but is it big enough news to cause such a turmoil? Being a cryptocurrency-skeptic I won't pretend that I don't experience a little bit of schadenfreude when I see CC crash, however if I'm trying to…

I am a firm believer that cryptocurrencies can offer major value to the world. But if you look at what's out there, Bitcoin etc are outdated technologies. Since Bitcoin was always leading the charts, in my opinion the whole market had to crash, and out of that it will show which ones offer true value. You shoudn't focus too much on price, but mainly focus on applicability and adoption/use. Most doctors here only offe…

"Most doctors here only offered cash payments, but nowadays a lot of them offer smartphone payments. They lose 6 cent on every transaction."

What's the opportunity cost of adopting a completely new payment system versus losing 6 cents on an already very expensive transaction?

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#203

Post by sneak » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #159

kart23 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even index stocks are in free fall right now. Check again. VOO has dropped 1.5% today, which is pretty bad for an index stock.

> VOO has dropped 1.5% today, which is pretty bad for an index stock. Uh, what? An index stock mirrors, as closely as possible, the market it's indexing. If the market goes down 1.5% - which is extremely common - so will VOO.

I think GP meant it is pretty bad in the market if the composite index average (and thus index ETF) is down 1.5% in a single day.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#204

Post by Stratoscope » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

mdgrech23 wrote: post #122

simias wrote: post #20

Since the article states "the trigger for the latest sell-off is unclear" I'm really curious if somebody here could venture a guess about the reasons for the sudden drop. The Bitcoin Cash fork seems suspiciously correlated but is it big enough news to cause such a turmoil? Being a cryptocurrency-skeptic I won't pretend that I don't experience a little bit of schadenfreude when I see CC crash, however if I'm trying to…

Quite the lexiphanicism aren't you?

If you're going to use a fancy word like lexiphanicism to criticize someone, you should at least use it correctly.

("Lexiphanicism" does not refer to a person, but to their use of language.)

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#205

Post by jeletonskelly » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #183

jeletonskelly wrote: post #22

Cryptocurrency crash will hopefully bring expectations back in line with reality. Legit blockchain projects will only have to deal with the stigma from being associated with a giant pump and dump when they approach VCs.

I have yet to see a single blockchain project that's actually interesting and worthy of anyone's attention.

I think secondary markets could benefit from a distributed trusted database with smart contracts.

I also think that behind the scenes on wall street there are some interesting things around securities settlement, something that is very time consuming and it's handled with some antiquated technology.

If securities trades are settled faster and ownership is more easily verified it could lead to some very interesting shareholder voting behavior.

The problem with all of these is that it requires a deep understanding of the process and the nuances of the industry to build a DLT solution that works.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#206

Post by SNACKeR99 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

jackjackk0 wrote: post #164

simias wrote: post #20

Since the article states "the trigger for the latest sell-off is unclear" I'm really curious if somebody here could venture a guess about the reasons for the sudden drop. The Bitcoin Cash fork seems suspiciously correlated but is it big enough news to cause such a turmoil? Being a cryptocurrency-skeptic I won't pretend that I don't experience a little bit of schadenfreude when I see CC crash, however if I'm trying to…

I like to think it's because of this article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0321-8

Nothing has soured me more on bitcoin than its impact on the environment. If for no other reason than that, I'm done with it.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#207

Post by kiriakasis » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #37

arijun wrote: post #10

Good. Bitcoin is too wasteful when it’s at a high valuation. The amount of resources in both electricity and gpu hardware that gets locked into mining is too high. It can still do it’s job as a currency with a lower valuation.

The problem is that all that computing power still exists. If the hashrate drops, then a 51% attack becomes possible. Remember that those mining farms still exist, even if they've temporarily turned off their mining equipment. Someone can turn all that equipment on suddenly to attack the network and start double-spending their coins. In effect: the hashrate MUST remain high if the BTC network is to remain secure. Tha…

Also, as a paper here proved a few month ago, a 51% attack only needs 30-40% if a miner grows a "local" long blockchain.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#208

Post by osd » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #162

Hermel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even according to the IRS's own estimates, laws like Fatca would never pass a cost/benefit test. The implementation costs of such bureaucratic monstrosities is in the range of hundreds of billions, whereas the benefit is a few orders of magnitude lower. The established banks do not complain much about it because the high fixed cost of compliance disproportionally affects small firms, thereby protecting them from bein…

So I know next to nothing about these regulations but what do you mean by "cost/benefit" exactly? Surely if these rules are meant to fight (directly or indirectly) organized crime then you can't just judge them on the amount of money saved? If you spend $10 millions to prevent $1 million to reach a terrorist organization, can't you consider it money well spent?

if the terrorist organization is able to fund itself, then no, 10 to 1 is not money well spent. You'll lose in the long run.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#209

Post by andrewla » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #124

alanfalcon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True ownership of scarce digital assets is something that blockchains excel at, particularly decentralized blockchains (because true ownership means no individuals have the power to control your asset) - there are still endless questions about what this means and how this plays out in practice, but it’s a real use case with a fascinating future that will live independently of the get rich quick fantasies of most bloc…

What "scarce digital assets" exist other than blockchain-backed cryptocurrencies? You've invented a problem for your solution.

There are plenty of scarce assets defined by no utility except for their scarcity; we call those assets money.

That said, even before Bitcoin arose, most real-world (fiat) currencies were handled primarily through electronic transfers. There, the double-spend and scarcity-preservation was largely maintained through a combination of accounting convention, interbank agreements, audits, regulations, and occasional criminal prosecution (for things like counterfeiting). So "scarce digital assets" in the form of entries on the Fed's (or the ECB's) balance sheet existed before and continue to exist after the emergence of blockchain-backed cryptocurrencies.

Gold-backed ETFs represent another form of "scarce digital asset", but more of a hybrid asset since they only arose and kept their value stable after creation/redemption mechanisms were formalized, and continue to maintain counterparty trust through auditing. But they do provide a liquid means of owning electronic gold; gold being the traditional scarcity-based asset.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#210

Post by kevingrahl » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

pault wrote: post #142

kevingrahl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I nearly shed a tear when I open my wallet that shows me how many coins it held over its lifetime. It even converts it into my local currency as if to mock me. I remember times where those Bitcoin faucets (is that still a thing?) gave you 50BTC every X hours just for entering your wallet address. Of course I spend nearly all of them on stupid stuff later on but before they gained considerable value. I still…

You can't afford to fix a hard drive with $250,000 on it? Can't you borrow some money against that?

It’s questionable if the data can even be restored.

Plus there’s more sensitive data than just Bitcoin private keys on that disk I’m not really that comfortable sending that in to some lab for data recovery.

When the disk broke I inquired what it would probably cost to retrieve the data and I was quoted with something around 150-300€ which to me is too much just for the small chance to actually get those coins. I don’t like to gamble.