No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250 • Hacker News Board

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#131

Post by zanny » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #67

simias wrote: post #20

Since the article states "the trigger for the latest sell-off is unclear" I'm really curious if somebody here could venture a guess about the reasons for the sudden drop. The Bitcoin Cash fork seems suspiciously correlated but is it big enough news to cause such a turmoil? Being a cryptocurrency-skeptic I won't pretend that I don't experience a little bit of schadenfreude when I see CC crash, however if I'm trying to…

I am a firm believer that cryptocurrencies can offer major value to the world. But if you look at what's out there, Bitcoin etc are outdated technologies. Since Bitcoin was always leading the charts, in my opinion the whole market had to crash, and out of that it will show which ones offer true value. You shoudn't focus too much on price, but mainly focus on applicability and adoption/use. Most doctors here only offe…

The thing is that the trading price of crypto does not mean anything to its adoption or utility. You can write a payout algorithm that grows the monetary base so fast the price can't appreciate. That coin could become unbelievably successful without ever being a viable dragon horde to sit on of endlessly growing value due to scarce supply.

Its really a reflection on the doomed state of the mainstream crypto mindset to only really care about getting rich quick in fiat off cryptocurrency bubbles. Bitcoin doesn't matter as a currency, it matters as a pyramid scheme. The people investing in it for personal financial gain dramatically outpace those trying to use it to overthrow fiat hegemony.

There have been coins like peercoin and Steem that have in small regards or parts tried to push the adoption envelope as a usable exchange medium over the pyramid scheme, but they are few and far between and their general unpopularity really shines a light on where the scenes true values lie.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#132

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

Hermel wrote: post #93

scient wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, KYC/AML is totally bad because of trying to actually prevent money being funnelled into crime organization etc. This is why I cant stand ignorant crypto-fans.

Even according to the IRS's own estimates, laws like Fatca would never pass a cost/benefit test. The implementation costs of such bureaucratic monstrosities is in the range of hundreds of billions, whereas the benefit is a few orders of magnitude lower. The established banks do not complain much about it because the high fixed cost of compliance disproportionally affects small firms, thereby protecting them from bein…

[deleted]

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#133

Post by bhaak » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

na85 wrote: post #45

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #31

And still, even on HN, the discussion of cryptocurrency is oscillating between totally different axioms? Some of us speak as prophetic market analysts and bring up "nails in coffins" and other crystal ball bull shit, and some of us wonder about the technology itself and understand that the price against the dollar only matters to gamblers.

Has anyone come up with a use case for blockchains yet, that isn't buying illegal drugs or money laundering? I keep seeing pie in the sky hypotheticals like "supply chain trust" from people who think farmers are etching their cucumbers with serial numbers, but I've yet to see any use case presented for a blockchain that has real utility and isn't better solved by existing processes or systems.

They aren't cucumbers but over here in Europe, eggs do have a serial number.

Making an analog asset machine readable and tied to a trackable digital asset is certainly an entertaining thought.

Especially for an industry like the food industry where currently we have to trust that the state is controlling them correctly or even that they are controlling them themselves (which several food scandals showed that this isn't working very well).

But we're still early days in that regard. None of the existing crypto coins could handle the necessary transaction volume.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#134

Post by Novashi » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

jeletonskelly wrote: post #34

simias wrote: post #20

Since the article states "the trigger for the latest sell-off is unclear" I'm really curious if somebody here could venture a guess about the reasons for the sudden drop. The Bitcoin Cash fork seems suspiciously correlated but is it big enough news to cause such a turmoil? Being a cryptocurrency-skeptic I won't pretend that I don't experience a little bit of schadenfreude when I see CC crash, however if I'm trying to…

Trading volume has dropped significantly over the last 6 months. Large holders have been patient waiting for new money to enter the market. Eventually, when the only activity is a few automated traders and the exchange liquidity provider, large holders are faced with opportunity costs of investing in something else and the limited liquidity the market can absorb as they exit. It's a domino effect as they see each oth…

It seems like the bitcoin selloff coincided nicely with the general stock market selloff. I think someone wanted out of bitcoin after staring at a flat price line for 6 months.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#135

Post by pault » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

sct202 wrote: post #104

Is there something useful that all the custom built bitcoin mining rigs can do now that it probably is less economical to use them to mine?

Nope. GPUs can be repurposed but the asics that are used for Bitcoin mining are expensive paperweights without demand for BTC.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#136

Post by odonnellryan » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #19

tom_ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about $35 and $250?

At $250 I was explaining to my parents what bitcoin is. At $19,000 I was overhearing Starbucks baristas talk about it.

IDK how popularity matters here?

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#137

Post by quickben » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #114

quickben wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could venture a guess about the reasons for the sudden drop It has to decline, I was giving it 2-5 yeas, but it seems it dropped much faster: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15760415 As for the faster than usual now, my guess is few things. Main contribution is NVidia that had their earnings report, they told the planet flat out gpus aren't selling as well, so the gig that everybody is increasingly mining was…

> Main contribution is NVidia that had their earnings report, they told the planet flat out gpus aren't selling as well, You've got cause / effect backwards. The slide started on Nov 13th, while NVidia's earnings report is Nov 15th. The NVidia thing was my first hypothesis too. But it doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny.

Maybe. Although excluding nvidia would have to include a requirement ER leaks don't happen. On something as semi-legal and connected to all sorts of shady as bitcoin.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#138

Post by nothrabannosir » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #120

superkuh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also the result of the federal governments of the world, the US in particular, choking off all the fiat crypto exchanges with their expanded and draconian know your customer laws. As an anecdote, I didn't buy my monthly bitcoin purchase early this month because I've been (and still am) locked out of my ~5 year old coinbase account I use constantly because they are being required to require new forms of ID and…

> they are being required to require new forms of ID and I cannot supply it. Can't, or won't?

Where’s the line ? E.g. If someone asked me for a certified copy of my birth certificate, because of circumstances it would be an enormous slog. Expensive and time consuming.

Does that count as can’t? How expensive does it have to be before it’s reasonable to call it “can’t”?

I think the bar is lower than the semantics of the word imply. Can’t can mean “theoretically can’t”, but also “it’s unreasonable to do”.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#139

Post by buildbuildbuild » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

My suspicion is that insider trading is rampant in the crypto world and that someone might have been tipped off as to what the outcome might be in the Tether investigation.

At risk of a downvote party I will express my opinion that, since many other interesting cryptocurrencies still closely track Bitcoin’s price, this “black friday sale” is a buy opportunity for some great other concepts.

Re: No End in Sight for Crypto Sell-Off as Bitcoin Breaches $4,250

#140

Post by awakeasleep » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:00 PM UTC

throwaway487548 wrote: post #81

What is interesting, the losses of those who got in after $10k could be approximated by analyzing daily trading volumes, and the sum of loses is about to exceed by far the .com loses. Such a huge loss of real, usually borrowed, money must affect the economy, at least in US and Asia.

Now this is the article i want to read