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The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

theguardian.com

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Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#11

Post by Balero »

ThrowMeDown01 wrote: post #9
VBprogrammer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is that in the horse example one presumes the horse does not enjoy it and the aim is to breed the horse. In the dolphin example the dolphin appeared to have a romantic attachment to the lady researcher and thus enjoyed the experience. That's still weird in this day and age.

> the horse does not enjoy it That's a bold statement. I don't even know where to begin, there are so many levels here. Like, why would you even make such a claim? I mean I'm not against the claim per se, but it does not seem like you have any evidence, or that you even looked for it. Seems to come right out of some human moral position instead, one that is not rooted in nature, given how many "weird" sex stories and…

From a moral standpoint, it doesn't matter if the horse enjoys it. The point is the get the semen, not for the horse to enjoy it.

Whereas with the dolphin example, the point was for the dolphin to enjoy it. There was no "morally purer" point.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#12

Post by eggy »

trollied wrote: post #6

There's a really good documentary about this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3822614/ The BBC showed it a few years ago, it's fascinating: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046w2n8

I heard an interview with the researcher on the radio while I was driving to work a few weeks ago, and it floored me. I then thought about the movie with George C. Scott, 'Day of the Dolphin', which my Dad took me to see when I was nine. I cried at the ending (no spoiler here, see the movie!).

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#13

Post by netcan »

newqer wrote: post #5
jobigoud wrote: post #3

I had read about these stories separately, the consensual, interspecies sex and the dolphin suicide, but for some reason I failed to realized or had forgotten it was the same dolphin. I admit I sort of fail to understand the outrage about the sex thing and about the attempt to teach it English. I'm probably naïve but I still think some basic form of communication should be possible, like with great apes.

I think the mindset of the 60's was way different. Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word.

I think that agricultural breeding stuff also wierds people out a little, on first hearing. Our instinct to notice this sort of impropriaty is keen.

But being an agriculture practice, goal-oriented... most people leave it at weird and move on.

Here, there's more eccentricity. LSD, interspecies communication, alien languages, animal personhood.... It doesn't take many leaps to get to "drug fueled bestiality."

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#14

Post by HocusLocus »

Here are the remains of Dolphin House,

https://zoom.earth/#18.318131,-64.859424,19z,sat

We used to sail past it in the 1970s, and the buildings were abandoned but had roofs then. Back in 2011 there were plans to develop the area but I guess they fell through. Back then the risque part of the story was well known, though the LSD experiments were not. They had it all backwards, the LSD should have generated an outcry instead. Mammals are similar enough that the scent of female human would surely provoke such a response.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#15

Post by peteretep »

jobigoud wrote: post #3

I had read about these stories separately, the consensual, interspecies sex and the dolphin suicide, but for some reason I failed to realized or had forgotten it was the same dolphin. I admit I sort of fail to understand the outrage about the sex thing and about the attempt to teach it English. I'm probably naïve but I still think some basic form of communication should be possible, like with great apes.

> the consensual

As a species, we’ve pretty universally said that some humans can’t legally/morally consent. A prisoner can’t consent to sex with their captors, even if they want to. A minor can’t consent to sex with an adult, even if they want to.

In short, I think declaring this as consensual is in question, rather than assumed. The power disparity here is huge between human and dolphin, in this context.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#16

Post by [deleted] »

jobigoud wrote: post #3

I had read about these stories separately, the consensual, interspecies sex and the dolphin suicide, but for some reason I failed to realized or had forgotten it was the same dolphin. I admit I sort of fail to understand the outrage about the sex thing and about the attempt to teach it English. I'm probably naïve but I still think some basic form of communication should be possible, like with great apes.

[deleted]

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#17

Post by coldtea »

newqer wrote: post #5
jobigoud wrote: post #3

I had read about these stories separately, the consensual, interspecies sex and the dolphin suicide, but for some reason I failed to realized or had forgotten it was the same dolphin. I admit I sort of fail to understand the outrage about the sex thing and about the attempt to teach it English. I'm probably naïve but I still think some basic form of communication should be possible, like with great apes.

I think the mindset of the 60's was way different. Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word.

>Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word.

That's perhaps a city thing. In farms people did similar things (to cows etc) all the time as part of routine job.

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#18

Post by HocusLocus »

ThrowMeDown01 wrote: post #9
VBprogrammer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is that in the horse example one presumes the horse does not enjoy it and the aim is to breed the horse. In the dolphin example the dolphin appeared to have a romantic attachment to the lady researcher and thus enjoyed the experience. That's still weird in this day and age.

> the horse does not enjoy it That's a bold statement. I don't even know where to begin, there are so many levels here. Like, why would you even make such a claim? I mean I'm not against the claim per se, but it does not seem like you have any evidence, or that you even looked for it. Seems to come right out of some human moral position instead, one that is not rooted in nature, given how many "weird" sex stories and…

Who could forget 'Mr. Zoo'...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMslljAllgg&t=29m45s

Re: The dolphin who loved me: the Nasa-funded project that went wrong (2014)

#20

Post by quaice »

peteretep wrote: post #15
jobigoud wrote: post #3

I had read about these stories separately, the consensual, interspecies sex and the dolphin suicide, but for some reason I failed to realized or had forgotten it was the same dolphin. I admit I sort of fail to understand the outrage about the sex thing and about the attempt to teach it English. I'm probably naïve but I still think some basic form of communication should be possible, like with great apes.

> the consensual As a species, we’ve pretty universally said that some humans can’t legally/morally consent. A prisoner can’t consent to sex with their captors, even if they want to. A minor can’t consent to sex with an adult, even if they want to. In short, I think declaring this as consensual is in question, rather than assumed. The power disparity here is huge between human and dolphin, in this context.

Can a captor consent to their prisoner? This is the dynamic here.
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