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Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

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Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#41

Post by lucideer »

gipp wrote: post #35
lucideer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a pretty damn big difference. There's certainly a difference. I'm not sure it's a very big one though. The latter is an extra problem in a few specific areas: 1. your foremost fear is a bad actor getting your private details (e.g. identity fraud / doxing). These are legitimate fears, but certainly not a primary likelihood in the majority of cases. 2. discrimination based on background checks (jobs/loans/etc.…

Can you name some of those reasons? Because they seem very non-equivalent for almost any reason I can think of.

This is an odd question. If you can think of reasons where they're non-equivalent, why not state those reasons in your comment?

You're asking me to give counter-examples to examples/explanations you haven't given.

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#42

Post by moderation »

anfilt wrote: post #5
reaperducer wrote: post #2

I just don't understand how so many people in the HN community, who are so vocal about privacy, turn around and use Chrome. Don't feed the beast.

I have been using Firefox since version 1.0. I don't understand the desire to use google's browser. However, why would even trying view secure data in your web-browser... Not even just Chrome. Things may get cached ect... Although, Mozilla has been doing things that I find annoying at times. Like adding pocket ect... Little Rant Although, I have looked at some of the other forks. What I find more depressing is how fe…

I've seen a number of comments about http/2 and http/3 being driven by Google. The ideas originated there (SPDY and QUIC respectively) but in both cases many different entities backed the ideas and formulated specifications in IETF settings. I'm not sure I buy that somehow Google managed to hoodwink the people that toiled on these specifications in a non-Google environment and managed to influence them in such a way that the output was beneficial to their nefarious goals.

There are already quite a number of http/3 implementations from non-Google companies and projects [0]. Cloudflare seem to be big backers of http/3 [1]. There were some other articles today that are generally positive on the http/3 approach. One was from Tim Bray at AWS [2] and the other from @ErrataRob [3].

0. https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/wiki/Implementations

1. https://cloudflare-quic.com/

2. https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2018/11/18/Post-REST...

3. https://blog.erratasec.com/2018/11/some-notes-about-http3.ht...

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#43

Post by pdonis »

pmoriarty wrote: post #15
anfilt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using Firefox since version 1.0. I don't understand the desire to use google's browser. However, why would even trying view secure data in your web-browser... Not even just Chrome. Things may get cached ect... Although, Mozilla has been doing things that I find annoying at times. Like adding pocket ect... Little Rant Although, I have looked at some of the other forks. What I find more depressing is how fe…

"It's a sign that web standards are getting too complicated." Is there precedent for standards significantly simplifying over time, or do they always tend to get more and more complex?

https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#44

Post by robocat »

reaperducer wrote: post #2

I just don't understand how so many people in the HN community, who are so vocal about privacy, turn around and use Chrome. Don't feed the beast.

I recommend to my non-IT friends and family that they should use gmail and chrome because they use Windows and Google's security is fantastic. Sure there is a compromise. Google are using private information for advertising but (1) Google doesn't have a history of sharing PII with third parties and (2) Google are very good at keeping information and passwords secure. Many of my non-tech friends and family use Android phones so they need a gmail account (convenience), and they use Facebook (so their privacy is already compromised to third parties). I strongly recommend against IE and Edge because they are buggy and IE/Edge had 9 critical security flaws in October (implies lots and lots of zero days in the long tail still remain). Firefox is OK but it just isn't as fast, reliable, usable, or secure as Chrome IMHO.

I personally use Chrome because it is secure and fast (and the debugger works far better than Firefox's, Safari's or Edge's). I personally don't use Apple because I don't want to spend x% of my disposable income on iDevices per year, when I can spend 0.x% on Android devices per year. I distrust Microsoft (their security is suspect and their implementations suck: I use outlook for work and the UI is super buggy - I notice unique flaws regularly and have to live with some bugs every day. Like email notifications stopped working the other day - just unbelievable shit). I would love to not use Google, but for the compromises I need to make, it remains the best choice by far for me. Edit: fixed # flaws.

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#45

Post by jackallis »

if this shocks you or anyone then you dont't know G-world. Remember, it's their world and we just live in it. Anytime you connect to G-world via any of their services, they "own" everything you send over it.

i just dont understand why people go "no way" over this kind of things -- it's google for F sake.

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#46

Post by robocat »

anfilt wrote: post #30
dredmorbius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What frequently happens is that a simplified alternative appears. HTML5 rather than XHTML, Markdown vs. HTML or LaTeX, HTML, originally, vs. SGML or Sun's ... proprietary hypertext system (Vue?). Arguably, replacement of much office suite software with Web technologies. Multics -> Unix.

This is true, but a web browser can't really make those choices without a breaking a lot existing stuff. The big problem is that we keep piling onto HTML, CSS, and JS. For instance if we wanted web apps it would have been better to make something separate. Instead we have taken HTML which was originally just a way of rich text formatting and have made into the beast that it is today.

I wish Google Search would create an HTML5 subset for documents that would boost rankings if used.

A good majority of search results I am looking for should be simple single page HTML documents that don't use complex HTML5 features that are needed for web apps.

Change ranking, and you give websites the incentive to avoid JavaScript or CSS features that are against the reader's interests.

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#47

Post by dogecoinbase »

moderation wrote: post #42
anfilt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using Firefox since version 1.0. I don't understand the desire to use google's browser. However, why would even trying view secure data in your web-browser... Not even just Chrome. Things may get cached ect... Although, Mozilla has been doing things that I find annoying at times. Like adding pocket ect... Little Rant Although, I have looked at some of the other forks. What I find more depressing is how fe…

I've seen a number of comments about http/2 and http/3 being driven by Google. The ideas originated there (SPDY and QUIC respectively) but in both cases many different entities backed the ideas and formulated specifications in IETF settings. I'm not sure I buy that somehow Google managed to hoodwink the people that toiled on these specifications in a non-Google environment and managed to influence them in such a way…

Cloudflare seem to be big backers of http/3 [1].

Having the second-largest traffic analyzer on board would seem like more of a cautionary negative than a positive to me.

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#48

Post by gipp »

lucideer wrote: post #41
gipp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name some of those reasons? Because they seem very non-equivalent for almost any reason I can think of.

This is an odd question. If you can think of reasons where they're non-equivalent, why not state those reasons in your comment? You're asking me to give counter-examples to examples/explanations you haven't given.

Well, that's pretty much my problem. The only reasons I can think of would pretty much be the two you've already listed (and explicitly said it's not equivalent for those purposes).

This isn't some gotcha thing, I'm trying to understand these concerns better, because I really don't. I'm not asking for "counter-examples" to anything, I'm just asking for examples. It's not an odd question.

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#49

Post by modzu »

reaperducer wrote: post #2

I just don't understand how so many people in the HN community, who are so vocal about privacy, turn around and use Chrome. Don't feed the beast.

half the internet is optimized for chrome. we're lucky theres any alternatives at all. MS should buy FF just to fuck the future

Re: Never connect to ProtonMail using Chrome

#50

Post by dredmorbius »

anfilt wrote: post #30
dredmorbius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What frequently happens is that a simplified alternative appears. HTML5 rather than XHTML, Markdown vs. HTML or LaTeX, HTML, originally, vs. SGML or Sun's ... proprietary hypertext system (Vue?). Arguably, replacement of much office suite software with Web technologies. Multics -> Unix.

This is true, but a web browser can't really make those choices without a breaking a lot existing stuff. The big problem is that we keep piling onto HTML, CSS, and JS. For instance if we wanted web apps it would have been better to make something separate. Instead we have taken HTML which was originally just a way of rich text formatting and have made into the beast that it is today.

..without a breaking a lot existing stuff...

That's specifically why and how new standards apear. They accomplish most (though not all) the earlier capbilities, with a masive reduction of complexity. It's a form of risk mitigation and debt reduction.

Compare browsers generally: Netscape -> MSIE -> Mozilla -> Firefox -> Chrome -> Firefox. Each predecessor reached a point of complexity at which, even with massive infusions of IPO, software monopoly, or advertising monopoly cash, they were unsustainable.

The old, dedicated dependencies (frames, ActiveX, RealPlayer, Flash, ...) broke. Simpler designs continued to function.

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