Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads • Hacker News Board

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#161

Post by jimmy1 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #102

dragonwriter wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why you should purchase Extra Virgin Olive oil from Greece, directly from Greece. I think you misspelled “California”. > Also the irony here is that for the "premium" Italian olive oils, especially the extra virgin, most of the olives come from Greece. I thought Spain supplied more of the olives for Italian olive oil, and that was true across grades.

Everywhere in the mediterranean supplies oil for olive oil. And calling it "Italian" is virtually meaningless. Either it comes from a very specific region of Italy so you can taste its local flavor, or it's just an oil blend. The back of the bottle will tell you which countries the oil comes from. I highly suggest buying from Greece instead of California, if only as a form of financial assistance via trade. Greek pro…

I am someone who still has all but my immediate family still over there, and I really appreciate you saying this. It really goes a long way. Greece has been at the very short end of the stick on some EU trade deals, austerity measures, increased war games from their millennial long mortal enemies, front lines of a refugee crisis, and more. For a country that has been through so much it truly is a testament to their resolve. And they still take great pride in making the best damn olives they can.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#162

Post by angott » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

Gatsky wrote: post #141

giardini wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

docbrown says> "there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil." Is there a taste/test that someone like me, who is a neophyte and definitely not an expert, could distinguish/use?

If you can find a way, try at least once to taste freshly pressed olive oil (by fresh I mean you are standing next to the oil press). This way you know for sure it hasn’t been blended or tampered with. My grandparents would pick olives and press them. We would toast big loaves of bread on the coals and drench them in this fresh oil. It tastes totally different to what you can buy in the store (at least what I have ha…

I am an Italian living in Vancouver, and I totally know what you are talking about. You can get pretty close to that by buying boutique cold-pressed olive oil. Here in Canada, I can only find it in high-end Italian grocery stores, and unfortunately the price is generally around 20-25 dollars / 500ml. But yes, you can find it.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#163

Post by chicob » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

buboard wrote: post #101

chicob wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Hacker News, and I usually read my tech-related news here first. Farming is kind of the family business, and I love it. I am also a physicist by training, and thus my interest in technology in general. Agriculture is becoming increasingly technological, and everything from farming gadgets to John Deere tractors hacking has come up many times. There are even some Plasma Physics applications to agricultur…

> agriculture is becoming increasingly technological depends, the european CAP has subsidized old-style agriculture which has left many regions way behind, and the regulatory frameworkd is so tight that, despite the fact that many countries are producing a lot of research (on GMOs for example), it's not likely to ever be used. I wonder how big is technology adoption in Portugal

Subsidizing old-style agriculture has two major benefits in my opinion: i) it allows for a smoother transition towards more advanced practices without crushing regular farmers and ii) it helps containing production surpluses, which has been, historically, a major concern in the European Union.

Regulations also help with avoiding surpluses, raising the bar for food safety, and have the added benefit of (arguably) fostering adaptability while giving the Union a relative protection from external markets.

Regarding the technological adoption in Portugal, I guess it depends on the sector you're considering. I really can't speak for other areas, but in the case of agriculture there have been some major investments in the past that allow for more productive practices even if not supported by major breakthroughs. It's mostly automation of harvesting, adoption of new practices and new pesticides, quality control and more training.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#164

Post by chicob » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:21 AM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #150

chicob wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Hacker News, and I usually read my tech-related news here first. Farming is kind of the family business, and I love it. I am also a physicist by training, and thus my interest in technology in general. Agriculture is becoming increasingly technological, and everything from farming gadgets to John Deere tractors hacking has come up many times. There are even some Plasma Physics applications to agricultur…

Do you use electronics to monitor / help farming ?

Yes: not considering everything that comes with a tractor these days, it's basically irrigation programmers, pH meters, humidity probes, sonars and speed-adjustment controllers for sprayers.

I hope someday I will be able to show HN some simple electronics of my own.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#165

Post by igivanov » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:22 AM UTC

It's sad for producers of genuine olive oil but as a rather indifferent consumer I always remember that olive oil, honey and I forget what else are the most falsified food products in the world. I would guess that the market of "extra virgin olive oil" will remain, cough, healthy.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#166

Post by chicob » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:24 AM UTC

phillmv wrote: post #154

chicob wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! One way to minimize the risk is to quarantine the batches in stub nurseries, and to be as zealous as one can regarding the sanitary passports. In the past, Alentejo had many orchards that, thanks to the State policy of the dictatorial regime, were drastically replaced by large fields for cereal production. This resulted in what is now known as the pseudo-steppe (of a particular ecological interest), which is…

E como era a região, antigamente, antes do Estado Novo? Que interessante. Só aí à dois anos é que aprendi que o eucalipto que tanto cobria o mato ao redor da aldeia, quando eu era pequeno, não é natural na europa.

Segundo sei havia mais árvores de fruto: laranjais, pomares, figueiras, e também amendoais. Os olivais eram de sequeiro, e no meio fazia-se cereal.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#167

Post by Retric » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:29 AM UTC

Moru wrote: post #153

Retric wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about dangerous. We have a wide range of crops and the loss of a single one is only ever a regional problem. The loss of any one crop be that something minor like strawberries or major like corn is just not that big a deal globally. Now locally yea it can be a huge issue, but the tradeoff of lower productivity every year vs the low odds in any one year of a problem make this fairly complex balancing act.

Google Banana fungus. We don't have a wide range of crops. We have monoculture and a very small set of GMO crops that is used all over the world. For example there is a lot of different rice species but we eat mabe five of them in western countries.

Let’s assume the worldwide Banana outpdrops to zero in one day. That’s bad, but not what I would call dangerous.

In terms of the food supply, their are several major food crops that are important wheat, corn, rice, soy etc so the loss of a major one would be very bad, but the worldwide food surplus is so mind blowingly vast it would not nessisarily result in starvation for anyone beyond possibly the farmers directly affected in the 3rd world.

And frankly next year you can generally plant something else.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#168

Post by bassman9000 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:35 AM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #53

People outside of Italy are probably not aware of how seriously they take the topic of olive oil over there. The label "extra vergine" increases the price so much that there is a huge economic incentive for fraud. To combat this they have a taste police (literally) that checks that olive oil samples are not secretly mixes of fresh and old oil together. They are... quite opinionated, as you can see this exchange from…

That's rich :)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/1198...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the...

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/europe/italy-olive-...

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#169

Post by chicob » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 1:36 AM UTC

anon2775 wrote: post #131

chicob wrote: post #23

I'm an olive and almond producer in Portugal. In preparation for this very serious issue, since that the only thing I can do is to minimize the risk of infection, I tell all personnel to spray bleach on trimming scissors for each tree, the case of high density orchards, and for every 10-15 trees (or each row) in super high density orchards. I also try to monitor for infection vectors like Cicadellidae, and for possib…

I'm curious: Are there growing concerns and stress about rain patterns (climate/weather), desertification and irrigation water rights?

Yes.

Climate change has brought difficulties in weather forecasting and dam management. Major rivers in Portugal have their sources in Spain, which gives this country a relative position of power in water storage in times of need. In the past, Portugal did make the case that Spain did not respect the law regarding water usage. Weather extremes are also important because of damage and insurance coverage.

Irrigation based in artificial reservoirs creates the risk of salination, which is already being monitored. I get regular reports on the quality of the water I use.

Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads

#170

Post by chicob » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #98

chicob wrote: post #23

I'm an olive and almond producer in Portugal. In preparation for this very serious issue, since that the only thing I can do is to minimize the risk of infection, I tell all personnel to spray bleach on trimming scissors for each tree, the case of high density orchards, and for every 10-15 trees (or each row) in super high density orchards. I also try to monitor for infection vectors like Cicadellidae, and for possib…

I’m unfamiliar with the particulars here. Do you have to plant olives and almonds in different fields or do they mostly like the same sun soil and water conditions? There has been a push by some people to plant multiple perennials in the same fields to improve soil quality but also to reduce the ease of spread of pathogens (because the next potential host is far away by insect and spore standards). Would it make sens…

They're in different fields. Almond trees are more susceptible to soil moisture and need better drainage. Pest control is different, and having them all together means farmers would have to spray both crops for a problem only one of them has, and a given pesticide may be allowed for almond trees but not for olive trees (e.g. the insecticide phosmet is not allowed in olive trees destined for olive oil; lambda-cyhalothrin applications are limited to two per campaign in olive orchards; many recommend against using glyphosate for weed control in the first years of an almond orchard.)

There are some annuals that might be interesting, such as clover, that help with erosion and nitrogen fixation. Native plants serve as buffers for auxiliary species and some (Brassicaceae) act as a prophylactic against fungal infections (Verticillium). Innoculation with mycorrhizae also helps.

Perennials might be interesting in riparian zones, to help with drainage and unusual surges of flow.