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Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#161

Post by ChuckMcM »

closeparen wrote: post #105
netcan wrote: post #68

You know what the problem with problems is? I'll tell you the problem with problems... :) Imagine Jules. Jules likes to put her laptop on the counter and work standing for an hour after lunch, while having her coffee. ...helps her digestion, or neck or something.. Personally, I like standing and/or walking while working too. I think better, it feels like. I like walking meetings, especially if we're going to be schem…

Businesses can't seem to admit that they're spending money based on employee preference. There has to be a metrics-driven productivity or healthcare spending argument to justify the budget.

I had this discussion with a book keeper about a fancy chair for an employee once. The bookkeeper was arguing that this was more money than they had spent on a chair before and so it needed to be justified.

I justified it by saying, "We pay this individual over $100,000 a year, they are key to the following efforts, and the chair will last them for their entire career with the company. Not to mention it costs about 1% what we paid the recruiter who brought this person to us."

I made a similar argument at IBM (which got me into some trouble) which was that revenue per employee was up significantly from the period when everyone had an office, so why not have an office with some offices, some cubes, and some open space and let people work in the space where they are most productive? Total cost per employee was still going to be a lot less relative to their revenue generation than it had been in the past.

Too often people focus too closely on the one time costs and not the overall expense.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#163

Post by asdff »

robotmay wrote: post #7

Well, obviously it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that? Because I'd think it's fairly obvious that standing still doesn't exactly burn the calories off. The key is moderation, like with everything. Alternate between sitting and standing. This past year I've started to get problems with my legs caused by sitting. Exercise relieves it, but the aches return when I sit down again. I just spend…

Try just taking a walk every hour before you shell out for a desk that may or may not help you. It is much easier to maintain focus for a whole day if you take small breaks every hour as well, and it helps with eyestrain to focus at far distances if you are in front of a monitor all day.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#164

Post by pjc50 »

closeparen wrote: post #105
netcan wrote: post #68

You know what the problem with problems is? I'll tell you the problem with problems... :) Imagine Jules. Jules likes to put her laptop on the counter and work standing for an hour after lunch, while having her coffee. ...helps her digestion, or neck or something.. Personally, I like standing and/or walking while working too. I think better, it feels like. I like walking meetings, especially if we're going to be schem…

Businesses can't seem to admit that they're spending money based on employee preference. There has to be a metrics-driven productivity or healthcare spending argument to justify the budget.

Yes. Admitting input from the employees violates the hierarchy. The Platonic ideal of "business" is one in which ideas are formed from the "vision" from the CEO and everyone else is there to implement their will, in a hierarchical fashion. This is used to justify paying the CEO the salary of a thousand or ten thousand workers.

Admitting that the workers might know anything better than the management, even about their own preferences, is disruptive to this concept.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#165

Post by asdff »

jseliger wrote: post #37
anonymousDan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly there is absolutely no need to splash out on expensive standing desks. I literally have two upturned plastic crates on my desk to support my monitor, and then two stacks of books to support my keyboard and also my mouse. Total cost about 5$. The important point is to make sure the height of the boxes or whatever you use is adjusted to eye level and roughly elbow level for the keyboard. The only downside is i…

Many people, myself included, want sit-stand desks that don't wobble. That's where the cost comes in. https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-de...

I've never seen a stack of textbooks wobble. Although they might cost more than the desk!

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#166

Post by bradlys »

antoineMoPa wrote: post #21
samastur wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe read the article next time. He says standing may help those with lower back and neck pain problems.

I read this exact part. Who does not suffer back pain after hours of sitting? If it does not hurt, does it mean it is still good to be sitting all the time? no. The author sounds like back pain is not a typical problem and that exercise is a huge part of the reason people use standing desks.

I never suffer back pain from sitting. Expert chair sitter here. Well over 30,000 hours in the game. Been sitting 10+ hours/day for 15 years now. Only thing that ever hurts significantly for me is my neck - which comes from poor posture and it's fixed by being just slightly conscious about it.

So maybe you experience back pain but not everyone does.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#167

Post by asdff »

JamesBarney wrote: post #67
supergeek133 wrote: post #55

Haha. So I have a standing desk at work and at home, I do it because it keeps me much more alert, and helps with my back not hurting after sitting for 8 hours. I don't get how we always go back to debating the medical merits of this, when why don't we just worry about what makes the employee more comfortable? Expense wise, an average standing desk isn't terribly more expensive than a normal desk OR some of the chairs…

Because I constantly see arguments that sat "you should use a standing desk because sitting is killing you". And not so many "you should try a standing desk, some people think they're more comfortable".

Because people get bored reading articles with neutral tone. We are talking about a choice of desk, after all. Extremes in language are much more satisfying to read, consciously or not, and the ad money proves this.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#168

Post by kd5bjo »

asdff wrote: post #155
narrowingorbits wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People whose reactions when confronted with something new, unknown, and unexpected are to laugh at it or respond sarcastically, instead of to accept the surprise, approach with curiosity and humility, and question if there is something they're not understanding, are unlikely to ever discover anything new. Everything that we call science today was once alternately laughable or mysterious.

Because science isn't about belief, its about reasoning. One person having a good response to something doesn't say anything about that something, that person, or that good response. Only after things have been repeatedly tested, and alternative explanations thoroughly ruled out, can a claim be considered accurate. Everything was once alternately laughable or mysterious, until it was thoroughly proven to be true. The…

Yes, but one person repeatedly having a good response to a thing is good evidence that thing is helpful to that person.

While it's good for society to find and recommend things that are beneficial to most people, we shouldn't prevent people from doing the things that they find helpful.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#169

Post by ejstronge »

3pt14159 wrote: post #50
JshWright wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "overrated" claim is that standing desks address the health concerns of sitting too much (a claim that I have heard many, many times). There is no evidence to support that claim. Your third paragraph accuses the author of cherry-picking the studies. Is there an example of a study you feel they should have included that supports your accusation? The author is not claiming to be a subject matter expert. The fact th…

There is some evidence[0], but people expect magic bullets, when the reality is that small gains here and there are useful. The only magic bullets I've found are cutting out refined sugar and heart pumping exercise at least 15 minutes a day, and ideally an hour. If it matters, my back pain largely went away when I switched to working while standing for three or four hours a day. [0] E.g., http://www.sjweh.fi/show_abs…

The linked article makes no claims about health outcomes - instead, the participants in that study reported feeling better, which contributes to the reported improvement in health-adjusted life years.

In fact, there was no difference in BMI reported between the standard condition and the intervention designed to decrease sitting time.

I don't know this literature much, but a separate analysis of the same study may show improved cardiometabolic risk profiles in workers who are encouraged to stand more often[1].

1. https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00005768-201803000-000...

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#170

Post by kaizendad »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #161
closeparen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses can't seem to admit that they're spending money based on employee preference. There has to be a metrics-driven productivity or healthcare spending argument to justify the budget.

I had this discussion with a book keeper about a fancy chair for an employee once. The bookkeeper was arguing that this was more money than they had spent on a chair before and so it needed to be justified. I justified it by saying, "We pay this individual over $100,000 a year, they are key to the following efforts, and the chair will last them for their entire career with the company. Not to mention it costs about 1…

That's a really excellent point. If there's any risk that an employee would leave to run after a cheap perk like a standing desk or a good chair, it's just bad management to not spend that money.
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