The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville • Hacker News Board

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#71

Post by adrianN » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 12:53 PM UTC

yters wrote: post #68

adrianN wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having taken care of someone who succumbed to dementia, I can say with some authority that it's not a matter of perspective. The last years of life are an absolute horror show for a depressingly large fraction of the population.

It still is a matter of perspective. Should a person who is unhappy and a burden for others be discarded by society, or should society do their best to make the person feel welcome? If society can do the latter then everyone is in a better place.

You can make people with dementia as welcome as you like, you still have to change their diapers, wake up to their screaming at night and keep a constant eye on them so that they don't hurt themselves or wander off. It's like having to take care of a 80kg baby that doesn't grow up and only gets worse. Add to this the psychological burden of having known this person before their illness.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#72

Post by AQuantized » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

yters wrote: post #69

ryukafalz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. Well, I'm not afraid of being dead. I sure do like being alive though, and would prefer that to continue!

Once you are dead you won't be aware life is no longer continuing. The only sticking point is the time leading up to death when one's fear of death makes them miserable. If the person can do away with the fear then they'll maximize their happy moments in the short time we have in this world. Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes…

There's probably a middle ground between 80 years of life and the several billion any potential heat death will take to manifest.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#73

Post by Chris_Chambers » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #42

thaumasiotes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [tradition] tends to be a collection of things whose primary commendation is that they didn't immediately cause a society to fail. Not at all. Traditions become traditions over long periods of time. Thus, they tend to be collections of things that haven't caused a societal failure in the last several hundred years, which is a much better record than not causing immediate failure.

I have a friend who rarely uses crosswalks. He tends to walk into traffic while shouting "Plot armor!". He has yet to be run over, so this has an excellent track record. Yet I suspect it just might be other than the greatest of all possible ideas, despite the lack of demonstrated failures. (Yes, this is absurd. Yes, I've told him this is clearly a bad idea. Yes, it's actually true.) Which is to say one should be caut…

Your friend is a precise example of the sort of person who would die before being able to make an impact on the traditions of his community. He would only be remembered in the form of a cautionary story warning people not to act like he did. Individuals tend to die from their mistakes while traditions enable future generations to automatically avoid those mistakes.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#74

Post by gxigzigxigxi » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

yters wrote: post #69

ryukafalz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. Well, I'm not afraid of being dead. I sure do like being alive though, and would prefer that to continue!

Once you are dead you won't be aware life is no longer continuing. The only sticking point is the time leading up to death when one's fear of death makes them miserable. If the person can do away with the fear then they'll maximize their happy moments in the short time we have in this world. Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes…

> Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes much more sense to focus effort on getting rid of the fear of death than trying to end death itself.

I don’t think that’s true from a global optimization perspective. If you’re trying to maximize contented moments, it makes sense to spend time thinking about how to extend life (assuming you’re talking about the number of happy moments for people who are currently alive), even if those moments still must eventually cease. Because trillions of years of happy moments is a lot more than 80-100 years of happy moments. Only if you’re trying to minimize unhappy moments does removing fear of death become a better goal.

However, from a local optimization perspective, since there is little anyone can individually do about their medium term probability of death, I agree that figuring out how to cope with and minimize that fear is probably the best strategy.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#75

Post by yters » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

gxigzigxigxi wrote: post #74

yters wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you are dead you won't be aware life is no longer continuing. The only sticking point is the time leading up to death when one's fear of death makes them miserable. If the person can do away with the fear then they'll maximize their happy moments in the short time we have in this world. Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes…

> Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes much more sense to focus effort on getting rid of the fear of death than trying to end death itself. I don’t think that’s true from a global optimization perspective. If you’re trying to maximize contented moments, it makes sense to spend time thinking about how to extend life (assuming yo…

Right, I mean from the individual's perspective, since why should the individual care about optimizing an aggregate the individual will never experience?

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#76

Post by yters » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #71

yters wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still is a matter of perspective. Should a person who is unhappy and a burden for others be discarded by society, or should society do their best to make the person feel welcome? If society can do the latter then everyone is in a better place.

You can make people with dementia as welcome as you like, you still have to change their diapers, wake up to their screaming at night and keep a constant eye on them so that they don't hurt themselves or wander off. It's like having to take care of a 80kg baby that doesn't grow up and only gets worse. Add to this the psychological burden of having known this person before their illness.

Do you think that if we develop the psychological strength to help people with dementia it will also make us better and happier people?

By happy I do not mean the transitory kind of happiness we get from eating ice cream or watching a good movie, though that sort of happiness is important. What I mean is the stronger and longer lasting happiness we get from the confidence of being able to work through difficult circumstances instead of casting off the difficult circumstances.

This is because difficulty is inevitable in life, and we will feel happier looking toward the future if we know we can deal with difficulty instead of needing to avoid difficulty. So, knowing we can help people dealing with a difficult affliction like dementia means we can form relationships with less concern whether it will all turn out badly. Otherwise, we will instead tend to insulate ourselves from the perceived hardship, which will cut down our ability to form strong relationships, and strong relationships appear to be essential for human happiness.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#77

Post by barrow-rider » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #29

claydavisss wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy for you but increasingly your experience is the exception. Even tier-one companies offering me positions with "top of market" pay have offered me health insurance that requires a monthly contribution...with a family these contributions are often meaningful. These are a stealth pay cut. If you are being paid $200k but have to contribute $1k a month for your health insurance contribution... Paid vacation is b…

In each of the teir 1 companies minus Amazon and Facebook you’ll get that and more. Most large t2 companies give all those benefits as well, just with less RSUs and free stock bonuses.

I'm not even in a T2 company and they offered us similar bennies. Not amazing stock options or anything, but solid healthcare and 401k.

"Small" business (200-500 bodies) out of the DC area.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#78

Post by dawhizkid » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

qnsi wrote: post #53

dawhizkid wrote: post #13

I wonder how many people think about longevity...for me that is less so about living to 100+ but more about doing as much as I can now to make sure old age is not filled with chronic illness. I’m a “millennial” and already very mindful of lifestyle choices that I hope help maximize my longevity i.e. fasting, low carb, exercise, no drugs, no smoking, less alcohol.

Low carb connected with longevity? I heard the opposite - vegan diet is good for longevity. Am I wrong? Edit: One article that supports my view (I found it in my bookmarks, there might be better) https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/the-optima...

yes - there's a lot of research on benefits of ketogenic diet and fasting as well as toxicity of sugar.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28877457

basically goal is to trigger cellular autophagy https://www.nature.com/articles/s41580-018-0033-y

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#79

Post by magic_beans » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

claydavisss wrote: post #7

magic_beans wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're not waiting until you retire to enjoy your free time and your community.

No, I'm waiting for the day I can avoid the world of work, which has become progressively shittier since I graduated college in the early 90s. When I started as a developer, it was NORMAL for an employer to: - 1:1 match 401k fully, some even offered pensions - offer PAID vacation time, not this bullshit scam "unlimited PTO" which is really just unpaid vacation. - offer full zero-deductible/zero-contribution health in…

I work as a developer.

- I have matching up to 8% on 401k

- I use my unlimited PTO for two week vacations about once every two quarters when work is slower. I take random Fridays/Mondays off often.

- My insurance is free.

- No equity, I'll give you that.

- I get in whenever, leave whenever, and work remotely as I want. My manager is completely fine with this and trusts me to do my work.

It sounds like you're at the wrong company.

Re: The Future of Aging Just Might Be in Margaritaville

#80

Post by andrey-g » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 7:51 PM UTC

qnsi wrote: post #53

dawhizkid wrote: post #13

I wonder how many people think about longevity...for me that is less so about living to 100+ but more about doing as much as I can now to make sure old age is not filled with chronic illness. I’m a “millennial” and already very mindful of lifestyle choices that I hope help maximize my longevity i.e. fasting, low carb, exercise, no drugs, no smoking, less alcohol.

Low carb connected with longevity? I heard the opposite - vegan diet is good for longevity. Am I wrong? Edit: One article that supports my view (I found it in my bookmarks, there might be better) https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/the-optima...

Vegan studies don't control for a lot of conflating factors.