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The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

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121–130 of 181 posts

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#121

As usual with upcoming legislation, FUD predominates in the conversation. A reasonable person may be used to parties with vested interests to exaggerate or misrepresent facts, but it's unfortunate when parties from whom you may not expect a clear bias continue to perpetuate uncertainty and doubt. Article 13 states that the measures to seek rightholder approval for user-submitted content "shall be effective and propor…

OK could you point to anything that outlines actual criteria for classification because the language you included from Article 13 in your comment is not restrictive in any manner.

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#122
post #46
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Implementing youtube-style content id will be a huge burden for small companies. There's stuff in every version I've read about the measures required being different due to size so I don't really follow the point here. And people on the other end (the uploaders) must have recourse, there's a mandated appeals process unlike the current situation.

That’s good info about #1, because it seems to be an O(n * m) problem where n is number of existing copyrighted works and m is the number of uploads. I’m more concerned about the way copyright itself may need to change to work sensibly with this — according to several UK lawyers I’ve talked to, under UK law any work is copyrighted the moment it is put down in a fixed medium. For example, this comment, the moment it i…

> That’s good info about #1, because it seems to be an O(n * m) problem where n is number of existing copyrighted works and m is the number of uploads.

This is likely very naive of me to ask but is it actually O(n*m)?

I don't know how the fingerprinting works but if it's anything like a hash I don't see why it couldn't be closer to O(n+m) since you only have to hash each copyrighted video once and then compare O(m) uploaded videos against the hashes.

I can imagine you can't actually compare against hashes of all copyrighted videos in O(1) since they can't just be kept in memory but I don't see why it can't be done in O(log n).

Of course this is very far out of my expertise so please someone explain to me why this is completely wrong =]

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#123
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because you can publish it yourself. We don't need giant middlemen to use the Internet.

most people do need middlemen though. if you require everybody to host their own content on their own websites, you go back to the old days of the internet where the only content was published by nerds. which had a certain charm, but was a lot smaller and less inclusive than today's internet.

> if you require everybody to host their own content on their own websites, you go back to the old days of the internet where the only content was published by nerds. which had a certain charm, but was a lot smaller and less inclusive than today's internet.

I'm afraid it's mostly inclusive in the sense of "you're included in the menu" rather than "you're included in the dinner guest list". It's easier than ever to be a human battery for someone else's social media machine. Not sure it's a good thing. I don't see it equivalent to running your own website in the "old days" in any but most superficial ways.

Seeing how some of the non-technical people use Facebook is just soul-crushing.

Even when people are fairly technical, many do not seem to realize the psychological costs to them individually, and social costs to everyone around them collectively.

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#124
post #98
post #9

I'm a lot less worried about the "link tax" clauses than the copyright liability clause. Not because the link tax is a good idea but because it's a spectacular own goal that is mainly going to hurt the idiots who lobbied for it. Giving companies direct liability for policing copyright in user-uploaded content is a much bigger disaster, on two separate fronts, both highly damaging: 1) Implementing youtube-style conten…

> 1) Implementing youtube-style content id will be a huge burden for small companies. I will be extremely surprised if that will be required from small companies, considering the directive expressly says that "special account shall be taken of [...] ensuring that the burden on SMEs remains appropriate and that automated blocking of content is avoided." (SME = Small and medium-sized enterprises) There is also no langu…

> IMO trying to fix the false positive issue is the best part of the directive, as it requires access to human review, reasonably justified decisions, and it requires users to have access to an independent body for the resolution of disputes. This would be a big improvement over the current Youtube system.

Will it? That sounds expensive at scale. I can see how some hosting services might decide that the thing to do is clamp down on who gets to publish things to help keep reviewing and appeals costs under control.

I mean, vetted creators of content are where all the money is to be made anyway, so why bother with the extra costs and pseudo-judicial process that comes with letting random people share media? Seems kinda unprofitable.

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#125

This article is a one sided look at how publishers benefit from Google without considering the other side, at all. This is not helpful for informed discussion. If Google is 'helping' these publishers then the counterpoint is these publishers are also 'helping' Google by making the content at their cost in the first place. Without their content what will Google search? Wikipedia, blogs? Without news content google sea…

> If Google is 'helping' these publishers then the counterpoint is these publishers are also 'helping' Google by making the content at their cost in the first place. Without their content what will Google search? Wikipedia, one person blogs?

The whole rest of the internet, which among other things contains a sizable number of media outlets that are not subject to these protections?

Frankly, Google is better-equipped to walk away from news providers than the news providers are to walk away from google. Google has done this before, even.

You are, of course, absolutely right that there is room for another business model here. In fact, one might posit that there has been room for decades! Surely it's possible that there could be a business model whereby consumers get access to the news they value for a reasonable price, producers of news get paid fairly, and profit-extracting aggregators are kept to the slimmest of financial margins. Surely it would be better for consumers (who doesn't like supporting journalism, so critical to a free society?) and journalistic outlets (who obviously would love to be free of Google's iron yoke)!

It's curious that no good replacement has arisen when the opportunity and incentives are so clear! Perhaps in Spain, where Google News does not operate on domestic newspapers and has not for years? But I'm sure that's merely my failure to understand how Google sucked all the oxygen out of the room and prevented those incentivized to do so from creating something better. Can you help me understand what I've missed?

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you planning to run your own T1 lines to the backbone when you're building your own datacenter to host one video? We don't "need" them, sure, but we live in a society. We're supposed to be able to delegate work to others who specialize in doing it.

T1 lines provide a scant 1.544 Mbps of bandwidth. No one is doing any amount of video over T1 lines in 2018.

I took a double take at that. T1? For video?

Does that still happen?

I remember the massive boost getting a T1 at work was, in 2001.

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the EU has a formal definition of a SME: "The category of micro, small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) is made up of enterprises which employ fewer than 250 persons and which have an annual turnover not exceeding 50 million euro, and/or an annual balance sheet total not exceeding 43 million euro."

Source on the EU SME definition is: 'Evaluation of the SME definition - Final Report' [1], published 2014-03-28. [1] https://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publi...

I should have included that, thanks :)

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#128
post #102

The very idea that the aggregator (Google) should pay the advertisers (news sites) for directing traffic to them is just patently absurd. By common sense, it should be the other way around. Sadly, the traditional media has a massive conflict of interest here, so the issue passed at least in my part of EU with little to no ado. But once the member states start enacting the directive to legislation, the manure will sur…

This situation reminds me of Google Shopping...used to be completely free to post products and get them included in the search results as "snippets". Now it's 100% paid, and expensive. Google News may go dark, but I wonder if they won't come up with some nice new ad format for publishers to feed their stories into, for a market based price, of course.

FWIW as a consumer Google Shopping is much, much better than it used to be.

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and i am sure the properly-greased hand will ascertain that the right businesses get classified as "SME" and the wrong ones do not ;)

Nope, the EU has a formal definition of a SME: "The category of micro, small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) is made up of enterprises which employ fewer than 250 persons and which have an annual turnover not exceeding 50 million euro, and/or an annual balance sheet total not exceeding 43 million euro."

The other method is to rearrange the business model to introduce shell SMEs or affiliates that pay licenses for subdomains (or what have you) to corporate and have very small actual roles aside from being the unregulated party.

The EU added restrictions related to the data itself to prevent outsourcing the liability in the case of GDPR, it will be interesting to see how well they can define and prevent structuring in this case.

Re: The Media Industry and the “Make-Google-Pay” Fantasy

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very possible that only government regulation which forces participation (such as the link tax) can actually work. Why don't we just make Google give every news org a few million a year then? Why pretend it's anything else but Google directly paying for the news? Side point, if news subscriptions were reasonably priced (upfront pricing, and billed monthly instead of this odd weekly nonsense), they would probab…

> Why don't we just make Google give every news org a few million a year then? That sounds sensible enough to me. As an example, Canada taxed blank CDs and CDR drives and distributed the revenue to their music industry.

Instead of that, why not just put a tax on oil companies and have them pay the media companies?

I mean, we've already thrown out all pretexts of supplier/consumer relationship. Why not just have the tax be on oil companies instead?

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