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Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#61

Post by rootusrootus »

AstralStorm wrote: post #42
malnourish wrote: post #9

Interesting. I'm always a fan of research challenging wisdom, although I'm not sure who really thought standing alone was exercise. I've found greatly improved comfort with my standing desk at work and I want to upgrade my home desk once I move. I hope that the lack of evidence for specific health improvements doesn't encourage companies to stop offering the desks.

I'm waiting for the desks with integrated threadmill and bicycle. Ooof, apparently no one wants sweaty and loud coworkers.

Treadmill desks are already a Thing. Haven't seen one in a big corporate office, yet, however.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#62

Post by lilactown »

antoineMoPa wrote: post #11

My main motivation for buying a standing desk would be saving my back from constant pressure. CTRL+F "back" in this article tells me that the author did not care at all about back problems and thought people bought standing desks to exercise. I already exercise in my spare time and commutes.

Yeah I can't understand this. I've been in constant lower back pain for years, with it getting considerably worse over the last 12 months. All of the experts have told me that it is some condition or other primarily caused by (and definitely exacerbated by) sitting for extended periods of time.

I literally haven't sat in an office chair for longer than 20 mins for the last 12 weeks and my back is so much for the better.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#63

Post by rootusrootus »

yeutterg wrote: post #14
sigfubar wrote: post #2

The author's bigotry is showing in spades. I don't care if standing all day long is "associated with lower socioeconomic status". Standing makes me feel better, improves my posture, and takes away all the literal physical pains associated with sitting. If this makes me similar to a person working in retail, so be it. Am I supposed to be ashamed of our shared fundamental humanity too?

"Standing makes me feel better, improves my posture, and takes away all the literal physical pains associated with sitting." This. After using a standing desk for a few years, I only occasionally want to sit (like 5% of the time). And I generally regret it after about 20-30 minutes. I see a lot of standing desk users with improper monitor or keyboard height, and I think this hurts standing desks' reputation. If these…

I think a lot of sitting desk users also have improper monitor or keyboard height, and many (most, anecdotally) people have atrocious posture. This probably explains a lot of why sitting has a negative reputation.

Personally, standing all day makes my feet tired & sore. I much prefer a well set-up sitting workstation and regular walking breaks.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#64

Post by charlesju »

I use a standing desk and my primary purposes are to keep myself more alert and to alleviate back pain. It is the single biggest improvement to back pain that I have found.

As for health, like the article says, the most important things are keep up a good diet (eat just enough, eat as many whole foods as possible, vary what you eat) and exercise.

I also would like to recommend https://fluidstance.com/ which is a board that wobbles to go with a standing desk. This has further improved the benefits to my back and general alertness while working.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#65

Post by mistersquid »

Because I disagreed with the conclusions of the article, I submitted this article to the HN community for assessment.

Many of the responses here call into question the article's apparent position, especially as regards its inflammatory title, and these responses reflect my own opinion and experience.

I expressed my objections as a comment to the article, reproduced here for convenience. [0]

> I've been a long distance runner all my life, hovering at a 7:30 pace. In my mid 40s I began getting pain in my legs while running. Increasingly, I could not run more than 3 miles at a time without injuring. My pace went to 8:30 or slower.

> Almost 2 years ago, I went to physical therapy and my doctor prescribed a standing desk. 1 hour standing; 1 hour sitting.

> Part of the problem according to my doctor is that my legs were tightening while sitting. Intermittently standing and stretching was not enough to offset what sitting was doing to my leg and back muscles.

> Since receiving a standing accessory at work and acquiring a motorized desk at home, my injuries have disappeared.

> Of course the stretching exercises I continue to do as directed by my physical therapist help. But stretching by itself did not work as I grew older.

> The combination of stretching exercise and alternating standing and sitting afforded by a standing desk has helped me recover from my injuries.

> My running pace has hit 7:20 and declining.

> Dismissing the potential benefit of standing desk as an expensive luxury is about as advisable as dismissing a doctor's visit as unnecessary use of health care.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/19/upshot/why-standing-desks...

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#66

Post by Bartweiss »

robotmay wrote: post #7

Well, obviously it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that? Because I'd think it's fairly obvious that standing still doesn't exactly burn the calories off. The key is moderation, like with everything. Alternate between sitting and standing. This past year I've started to get problems with my legs caused by sitting. Exercise relieves it, but the aches return when I sit down again. I just spend…

> it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that?

Not directly, but part of their popularity does seem to be a response to studies showing that exercise doesn't offset sitting. There were a few pretty convincing results in a row concluding that extended sitting is harmful in itself, regardless of exercise frequency. Given that many other studies show extended standing is also bad, I think the question worth investigating here is whether position changes offset that or whether interspersing actual movement is required. (More speculatively, a major leg-bouncing habit or an 'active' base for sitting or standing might help.)

> Sit/stand desks have an added bonus of letting you adjust the height of the desk when sat down, which makes a big difference.

This is reason enough for me to value a sit/stand desk - even if I never stand up, the ergonomics of controlling desk height are a huge benefit. Guides to adjusting chair height for that are fine, but I want to adjust my chair relative to the floor so that my feet lie flat, then my desk to my chair. (And then, ideally, my monitor and keyboard separately also).

I agree that bad chairs are almost certainly a big factor, in the ways you describe. Circulation issues and back pain are two of the biggest issues with sitting, and they match up to pressure from the chair bottom and poor lumbar support. In addition to the padding issue you mentioned, chairs with back support are usually worse for me, because the back support is often fixed in place and only correct for people of one specific height. Either getting a high quality chair or being able to change positions often seem like the most obvious improvements.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#67

Post by JamesBarney »

supergeek133 wrote: post #55

Haha. So I have a standing desk at work and at home, I do it because it keeps me much more alert, and helps with my back not hurting after sitting for 8 hours. I don't get how we always go back to debating the medical merits of this, when why don't we just worry about what makes the employee more comfortable? Expense wise, an average standing desk isn't terribly more expensive than a normal desk OR some of the chairs…

Because I constantly see arguments that sat "you should use a standing desk because sitting is killing you". And not so many "you should try a standing desk, some people think they're more comfortable".

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#68

Post by netcan »

You know what the problem with problems is? I'll tell you the problem with problems... :)

Imagine Jules. Jules likes to put her laptop on the counter and work standing for an hour after lunch, while having her coffee. ...helps her digestion, or neck or something..

Personally, I like standing and/or walking while working too. I think better, it feels like. I like walking meetings, especially if we're going to be scheming.

Anyway... Jules has a laptop, a counter and she can stand if she likes.

The problem (with problems) is that we^ can't live with "Jules likes X." X must be a universal truth, transformational but as yet undiscovered... something worthy of TedX.

In comes corporate and bureaucratic fact-finding, maybe some pseudo-science. Occasionally actual science weighs in, but those assholes always seem to hedge with fancy "maybes" and "more studies required." So, we create some corporate truth, a way for Jules to stand up with official, legible backing.

It's the same HN debate we keep having about open offices. We can't keep it at "I like/dislike this thing," thing must be quantifiably better.

Not all the decisions we make are factual.

^We means: HN, HR, OHS, furniture manufacturers, ergonomics auditors, techchrunch...

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#69

Post by jm__87 »

netcan wrote: post #68

You know what the problem with problems is? I'll tell you the problem with problems... :) Imagine Jules. Jules likes to put her laptop on the counter and work standing for an hour after lunch, while having her coffee. ...helps her digestion, or neck or something.. Personally, I like standing and/or walking while working too. I think better, it feels like. I like walking meetings, especially if we're going to be schem…

Thanks. I stopped reading the article here:

> Research, however, suggests that warnings about sitting at work are overblown, and that standing desks are overrated as a way to improve health.

Who cares what research says. If someone says it helps them and they prefer it to sitting, that is enough proof for me.

Re: Why Standing Desks Are Overrated

#70

Post by asib »

malnourish wrote: post #19
bpicolo wrote: post #3

Best strategy is just drinking enough that you need to hit the restroom with reasonable frequency. You stay hydrated and get well-timed walking/headspace breaks. Win-win.

Anecdotal, but be wary. I drank a lot of water for a long time (120+ ounces a day of water, plus whatever else I would drink). I was constantly thirsty and was worried I had diabetes. It turns out I was drinking _too_ much water and was flushing out valuable electrolytes from my system. Drinking less paradoxically left me feeling quenched, but it took a doctor's visit and blood work to resolve.

Just as a counter anecdote, I drink about 6-8 litres over the course of a day (generally 2 litres in morning before I go to work, 4 during work and 1-2 after work) and have never experienced this. Bear in mind I do 1.5 hrs cardio when I get up, maybe this makes me thirstier throughout the day. Only time I ever had symptoms of over-hydration (very similar to symptoms of dehydration, classic one is a headache) was when I was drinking over 10 litres per day.
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