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Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

nytimes.com

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Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#151

Post by evanelias »

Retric wrote: post #141
evanelias wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow this line of reasoning. It's his money, not taxpayer money. If he simply held on to the money, he would not owe additional tax on it either. Perhaps it will eliminate his personal tax bill for 2018, but his yearly income is far less than $1.8B, and his tax bill is only a portion of his yearly income... the tax implications of this gift are only a small portion of the amount.

Unless he is an idiot, he donated aprecated assets like stock. If he sells the stock he needs to pay taxes on that stock. That’s true even if he buys something by directly handing someone stock. Even if he had 1.8 Billion in cash and ‘only’ got to deduct from his current tax bill that still means the US population is giving up money to support his cause. Taxes are not about the government. They are a shared burden by…

> If he sells the stock he needs to pay taxes on that stock

He would need to pay tax on the capital gains. We have no way of knowing what the stock's cost basis is.

For sake of example, let's say the $1.8B had a cost basis of $1B. In theory the tax bill would be $160M. While that's a decent chunk of change, I definitely wouldn't describe it as "a large chunk" of the $1.8B being "subsidized by tax payers".

Also keep in mind the ultra-wealthy have all sorts of tax avoidance schemes anyway, and regardless of what he spent this money on, he is likely paying a much lower taxation rate than you or I (or the example above). That's a separate topic though.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#152

Post by EADGBE »

yelloweyes wrote: post #32
kristianp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is just insane that 1.8B should be spent on just Johns Hopkins. This doesn't sound like anywhere near the most efficient way to help the most students who are missing out on places because the institution looks at their ability to pay. Does Bloomberg have an alterior motive to limit his donations to just his Alma Mater? Does he just want a wing of the library named after him or something? I'm frustrated reading th…

1.8B is not that much, really. at 50k tuition, that's only 36k people.

Yeah, sad to see it go to just one university with those kinds of numbers.

Had it been spread to low-cost universities and community colleges, those numbers could have easily been 10x. And wouldn't require the son of a farmer to relocate to one of the highest COL states in the US. Or a daughter from someone in Detroit (went back to find the details of that anecdote and got locked out from paywall).

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#153

Post by strikelaserclaw »

I wonder how giving to john's hopkins fixes the issue that lower income people don't generally have a good pipeline to know their options and realize it when it comes to higher education. I don't think it is just a money thing when it comes to lower income households sending their children to prestigious universities. Surely alot of top schools give out generous packages to these people. How do you fix a system to work for lower income households in which many children of the upper middle class and above (who are most likely to get into these top schools) are groomed from a younger age by parents with financial means to do so and good schooling (some of which is specifically designed to get its students into the top schools).

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#154

Post by Retric »

evanelias wrote: post #151
Retric wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless he is an idiot, he donated aprecated assets like stock. If he sells the stock he needs to pay taxes on that stock. That’s true even if he buys something by directly handing someone stock. Even if he had 1.8 Billion in cash and ‘only’ got to deduct from his current tax bill that still means the US population is giving up money to support his cause. Taxes are not about the government. They are a shared burden by…

> If he sells the stock he needs to pay taxes on that stock He would need to pay tax on the capital gains. We have no way of knowing what the stock's cost basis is. For sake of example, let's say the $1.8B had a cost basis of $1B. In theory the tax bill would be $160M. While that's a decent chunk of change, I definitely wouldn't describe it as "a large chunk" of the $1.8B being "subsidized by tax payers". Also keep i…

In that hypothetical situation, 160M would only be part of his deduction, he would also reduce other tax burdens due to the charitable deduction also applying.

Also, I would call 0.16 billion a large chunk of 1.8Billion as it would drop that down to 1.64 billion.

Anyway I would not call a basis of 1B out of 1.8B a highly appreciated assets. If he wants to keep a more appreciated asset with a basis of say 1/2 or 1/10th it's current price as a better long term investment you can still do this. Donate the highly appreciated stock, sell some less appreciated stock and use the proceeds to buy the stock you want which now has a much higher basis.

Then if the stock you buy tanks you can at least take a deduction when you sell it.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#155

Post by Falling3 »

addicted wrote: post #86
nickthemagicman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view of college seems to be very media influenced. Just like 99.9% of Arabic people aren't terrorists, 99.9% of college students aren't 'safe space triggered social justice warriors'. Maybe you should grab a statistics class at a nearby college. ;). The media has really painted college students in a bad light. There's such a wide variety of students and personalities. It's a great place to share ideas and form n…

As the spouse of someone who suffers from depression and suicidal thinking the outrage against “trigger warnings” really pisses me off. Trigger warnings are just that. Warnings. We watched A Star is Born, and having my spouse go back on almost a years worth of progress and treatment when a single “trigger warning” could have avoided that is beyond enraging. And what’s most hypocritical is the people who are complaini…

I completely understand and agree with your frustration. The blame is not only the people who deride the value of trigger warnings, but also on the Left, which has this horrible tendency to take good ideas and apply them to every situation imaginable watering them down to the point of uselessness. I say this as someone very much on the Left. The evolution of trigger warnings into content warnings took them from a real way of protecting people into a self-parodying attempt at shielding people from topics they don't like.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#156

Post by 1123581321 »

yesenadam wrote: post #135
1123581321 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you follow the chain you replied to, born_a_beetle is saying that a consequence of such a donation to a state school would be a dependence on Bloomberg that is inappriate for public education. It’s clear that he or she is concerned about that as an unintended consequence of such a donation. No one is advocating for the unintended consequence to happen, but they are arguing for a course of action that born_a_beetle…

Thank you, very well put. (I really should've stayed out of this issue about which I know nothing.) Sure, I get that it might have undesirable consequences, like creating a harmful habit or addiction, but also 'such a donation to a state school' would mean (obviously) a relatively poor school gets a lot of money, which seems to me a good thing. No?! It almost seems like people are saying....that all mega-donations sh…

Yes, I do agree that state schools also need alum support. The large public universities I’m familiar with have plenty of buildings named after wealthy people and are facing budget crises that affect affordability, so they could use more money.

I could see trouble if a state school doesn’t effectively manage endowments and receives too much money to handle, but as long as proper governance exists elsewhere, I don’t see how concentrated donor influence could hurt the school more than the money would help, even if the money weren’t allocated as well as it could’ve been.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#157

Post by akulbe »

schimmy_changa wrote: post #66
akulbe wrote: post #63

I realize I'm likely going to be a dissenting opinion here… but I'm not sure this is a good investment. Unless you're going to enter a field that requires the pedigree that starts with college (i.e. medicine, law, engineering), it's arguable that college isn't even worth the tuition you pay for it. Like another commenter says, they have no incentive to do anything that will reduce costs. The quality of the education…

That may be true (but is arguable) if you see college as nothing but a vocational school, training you to be the best worker which society could ask for. A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. How can you ever change society if you are only able to see the world in what makes money, and are never given the time and r…

I agree that the Liberal Arts are crucial, but this sentiment seems to be gone in favor of a more vocational approach.

While it still exists, good LA programs are rare, and largely dismissed by society as not worth it.

See all the parents and friends asking... "How are you possibly going to make a living with a Liberal Arts degree?!"

I wonder what American society would look like if this were flipped on its head? Make liberal arts the central piece of a college education, and leave vocational training largely to employers.

I'm not sure if it's realistic to think that'd ever happen, but I wonder what it would look like if it did?

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#158

Post by foxyv »

marsrover wrote: post #15
Barrin92 wrote: post #8

First off, this is a great thing for Michael Bloomberg to do so props to him, but I think there needs to be a much broader discussion about moving away from college as a sort of 'eye of the needle' mechanism for upwards mobility in the United States. I'm German so my perspective may be biased, but over here you can pick up an apprenticeship, a dual university/work program and still earn comparable wages to college gr…

You can enter a trade school in the US and earn more than many college graduates. I think it’s more of a mindset problem than anything. College degrees give a person a baseline social status whereas trade schools are looked down on as low class.

Most of the people I know who went to trade schools ended up with 7-10x as much student loan debt as I have for my BS and are now working in jobs that require only a High School diploma.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#159

Post by manigandham »

notSupplied wrote: post #148
manigandham wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I said though, is it? Arguing against a made-up statement is indeed meaningless. Academia is not a political party, and has all kinds of people, so being so one-sided politically is a valid concern. There's also a big difference between beliefs on issues and historical facts. Facts, by definition, cannot be debated as they are objective truths.

You just repeated the claim I am arguing against: that the mere one-sidedness of a group of people's beliefs is in itself a problem without discussing the merits of those beliefs, for which I constructed the example of "the mere onesidedness of Holocaust believers is problematic and equal representation from deniers should be introduced" If you've got a problem with beliefs commonly held within academia then debate t…

As stated, there's a difference between beliefs and facts which you are conflating. You cannot debate facts like the Holocaust.

The OP was saying SJWs were a vocal minority where I claimed otherwise. If you're also saying that they're widespread beliefs then it looks like you're just agreeing with me. The actual problems with those beliefs was not the topic of this thread.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#160

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Retric wrote: post #143
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are the art of plucking the goose as to get the most feathers with the least squawking. I am not on the side of rationalizing why somebody 'owes' taxes on money already taxed.

I am not saying he needs to pay more. I am saying the charitable deduction like all deductions are effectively just another form of spending. We hand out money to people buying a Tesla Model S’s, or paying a mortgage payment. Agree or disagree with the idea, just understand it’s not free.

Except 'Not collecting money' and 'spending money' are not quite the same thing. Almost, but not quite.
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