Italy has a messy history listening to and even jailing its scientists, as they go about the normal process of empiricism.
https://www.nature.com/news/italian-seismologists-cleared-of...
Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
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Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#12This looks like an opinion piece disguised as objective reporting. There's just enough factual information to make it seem credible but the author is clearly taking sides. For example, the article characterizes people with environmental concerns as "anti-science" yet there's no evidence presented to support this point of view.
Welcome to all journalism.
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#13Italy has a messy history listening to and even jailing its scientists, as they go about the normal process of empiricism. https://www.nature.com/news/italian-seismologists-cleared-of...
This particular story is embarrassing (although as your article points out, they were eventually cleared) but I don't think it's directly related to the problem at hand.
Failing to heed the warnings of scientists is unfortunately not something we can stereotype on Italians alone...
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#14Italy has a messy history listening to and even jailing its scientists, as they go about the normal process of empiricism. https://www.nature.com/news/italian-seismologists-cleared-of...
There was actually an investigation of Italian scientists with respect to their alleged involvement with the spread of this particular plant disease.
https://www.nature.com/news/italian-scientists-under-investi...
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
It does sound a little subjective but then the following seems like it really happened, which definitely looks like being anti-science: > In June, some parliamentarians formally deposited documents at the Senate, one of Italy’s two houses of parliament, which challenged the scientific evidence on which Xylella management plans have been based and called for a Senate inquiry into whether scientists have misled the pub…
that action isn't intrinsically anti-science. It depends on the objection that the counterparty has raised - if their objections are legitimate or just based in conspiracy. If the results cannot be defended without resorting to an appeal to authority then that is more anti-science than challenging the work itself.
> If the results cannot be defended without resorting to an appeal to authority then that is more anti-science than challenging the work itself.
I think trusting "an independent analysis commissioned by the national science academy" compared to a political action initiated by a few politicians is not "an appeal to authority", quite the contrary. At some point we do have to trust some people who are better prepared and informed than us on a particularly given subject. Especially in the Italian political and social context, where some other scientists have been recently prosecuted for "failing" to predict earthquakes.
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#16The easiest way to ensure that people listen is to do nothing and let all the olive trees in Italy die. I presume at that point people will pay attention.
They will not, they will just find a convenient scapegoat.
Immigrants! Leaders of other EU countries telling their banks to dump our bonds and cause the ‘spread’ to levitate. Et cetera.
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
that action isn't intrinsically anti-science. It depends on the objection that the counterparty has raised - if their objections are legitimate or just based in conspiracy. If the results cannot be defended without resorting to an appeal to authority then that is more anti-science than challenging the work itself.
> If the results cannot be defended without resorting to an appeal to authority then that is more anti-science than challenging the work itself. I think trusting "an independent analysis commissioned by the national science academy" compared to a political action initiated by a few politicians is not "an appeal to authority", quite the contrary. At some point we do have to trust some people who are better prepared an…
to be clear, I was addressing the original complaint, not the response to the independent analysis. If your allegations are addressed by an independent third party and you continue to reject the outcome, then it's pretty clearly conspiracy-based.
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#18I was pretty shocked to learn that most (~80%) of the Italian extra virgin olive oil that comes into the US is neither Italian or olive oil.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-overtime-how-to-buy-...
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#19Italy has a messy history listening to and even jailing its scientists, as they go about the normal process of empiricism. https://www.nature.com/news/italian-seismologists-cleared-of...
"Bertolaso said he was sending the scientists to L’Aquila to carry out “a media operation” in order to “shut up any imbecile,” most likely a reference to Gioacchino Giuliani, a technician at the nearby Gran Sasso physics laboratory who had reportedly raised a series of alarms about impending strong quakes in the weeks beforehand."
Scientists, acting in a public service context, charged with negligence after a natural disaster they dismissed as unlikely resulted in 300+ deaths. That isn't the same as putting scientists on trail for reporting factual but inconvenient data. All their sentences were overturned as well.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/10/seven-year-legal-sag...
Re: Italy’s olive crisis intensifies as deadly tree disease spreads
#20I wonder if such bacteria can be designed in a lab.
And then used to attack developing countries massive agricultural production.
Let's say, china and india are growing export regions.
And if American or Russian companies design a specific bacteria to target their major agricultural exports then the prices will go up due to falling supply.
So is this possible? Could this be happening somewhere in the world?