Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 164 posts

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#131

Post by palunon »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #79
wernercd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. But the current education system doesn't give you either. You don't get tools to be useful - IE STEM related, engineering, math, etc. You also don't get the tools to "engage" with the world. Blocking traffic, needing safe places and being triggered by anything you disagree wit…

Your view of college seems to be very media influenced. Just like 99.9% of Arabic people aren't terrorists, 99.9% of college students aren't 'safe space triggered social justice warriors'. Maybe you should grab a statistics class at a nearby college. ;). The media has really painted college students in a bad light. There's such a wide variety of students and personalities. It's a great place to share ideas and form n…

> Just like 99.9% of Arabic people aren't terrorists

Yeah, sure, one in a thousand Arabic person is a terrorist...

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#132

Post by pi-victor »

mmanfrin wrote: post #40
spikels wrote: post #33

Actual Reason: Bloomberg is planning to announce his presidential candidacy soon.

The cynical part of me is in complete agreement. I hate that I assume ulterior motive to charity, but Bloomberg wants to be in politics, and this is a big move at the very beginning of the primary races.

was about to same the exact same thing. however, as long as this helps, in the broader sense, i hope he buys all the popularity he can get :)

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#133

Post by CalRobert »

closeparen wrote: post #126
CalRobert wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...entitled tto success..." It's not being entitled to success, it's terror at being a complete and utter loser, because we spend eighteen years drumming "if you don't go to college you'll be dirt poor, live in a van down by the river, and flip burgers" in to their heads. You're told constantly that if you don't go to college you're utter scum. Of course, the implication that flipping burgers is shameful is somethin…

Scum or not, the difference in outcomes is real [0]. Cultural memes about the importance of college are one part of how middle-class-ness is made to stick. The other part is money. For better or worse, the social contract is that education is paid forward across generations, from the middle class to their own children and from the rich to everyone. Crushing student debt load is the scar tissue that forms when when th…

You're completely right. But those memes aren't only targeted to middle class kids.

I'm doing fine, and am not really worried about my kid affording college.

But too many of my friends are _not_ doing fine, and I have a strong suspicion college was not a good ROI for them. The combination of :

* "You MUST do this to be a successful adult"

* "Oh btw it costs several years' worth of your future income"

* "But guess what! Here's a big pile of debt that you can never discharge no matter what" (aside from death and some very, very extreme tax circumstances)

* "And because we're responsible adults who care about the next generation we made sure you attended horrible schools through your youth and have no cultural appreciation for mathematics giving you none of the tools you'd need to accurately determine if this is a good decision"

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#134

Post by netcan »

jseliger wrote: post #2

This is a fine thing to do with $1.8B and that amount could be used in worse ways. Still: Together, the federal and state governments should make a new commitment to improving access to college and reducing the often prohibitive burdens debt places on so many students and families. There may be no better investment that we can make in the future of the American dream — and the promise of equal opportunity for all. At…

In this case it isn't "we," it's a specific person and it's a reflection of his take on the world.

I think he outlined his own thinking pretty well. He wants elite colleges to stay as they are now, but more meritocratic in their admissions. Same elite institution, but with students from lower income backgrounds.

It's obviously an establishment-oriented donation, not a "radically transform education" idea or an "effective altruism" oriented idea. He explains his own thinking pretty clearly.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#135

Post by yesenadam »

1123581321 wrote: post #130
yesenadam wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is anyone arguing that "Public schools should be dependent on the whims of philanthropic billionaires"?

If you follow the chain you replied to, born_a_beetle is saying that a consequence of such a donation to a state school would be a dependence on Bloomberg that is inappriate for public education. It’s clear that he or she is concerned about that as an unintended consequence of such a donation. No one is advocating for the unintended consequence to happen, but they are arguing for a course of action that born_a_beetle…

Thank you, very well put. (I really should've stayed out of this issue about which I know nothing.)

Sure, I get that it might have undesirable consequences, like creating a harmful habit or addiction, but also 'such a donation to a state school' would mean (obviously) a relatively poor school gets a lot of money, which seems to me a good thing. No?! It almost seems like people are saying....that all mega-donations should go to schools that already have lots of money. Which does seem going overboard a bit.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#136

Post by chiefalchemist »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #77
chiefalchemist wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they're not qualified. They're just not college material __and__ there's not enough mid / highend jobs for them. At the same time, the trades are hurting for good people. But the entitled are too good to be fully employed. They'd rather taken on debt. Given where AI is headed the higher edu route is not going to improve. Yet BHO, who knows better, kept beating the "higher edu for all" drum.

They're not entitled, they’re just not being compensated enough to do labor which has quite a bit of negative effects on your health and quality of life compared to office jobs. Once you see people opting for the trades, then you will know they are getting proper compensation.

The trades aren't __that__ dangerous. Certainly not any more dangerous than sitting at a desk all day, stressed out, and putting on 30 - 50+ lbs. That sedentary lifestyle will kill you.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#137

Post by chiefalchemist »

CalRobert wrote: post #121
chiefalchemist wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect the edus to say no to easy money. And the students are raised to think they are entitled tto success, whether they are cut out for that path or not. It's PC to say "everybody gets a degree." The reality is, that's a very expensive empty promise.

"...entitled tto success..." It's not being entitled to success, it's terror at being a complete and utter loser, because we spend eighteen years drumming "if you don't go to college you'll be dirt poor, live in a van down by the river, and flip burgers" in to their heads. You're told constantly that if you don't go to college you're utter scum. Of course, the implication that flipping burgers is shameful is somethin…

They are entitled in the sense that they pick majors / areas of studies with limited market value. Because mom said I can grow up and be whatever I want. It's as if the degree is more important than an employer seeking that skill set.

They are entitled in the sense they insist on going to some overly expensive exotic school to get that degree, because a state school isn't good for their ego. Because dad said I can do whatever I want with my life.

They are entitled in the sense they make these decisions without any sense of the debt they're going to take on. I hate to sound blunt but if you can't figure out (e.g.) 100k in debt isn't easy when you make 35k y/p (and insist on an apt with all mod cons, a new car, etc.) then perhaps you're not yet college material.

True story: I recently suggested to an average academic HS senior that he consider a year at the local community college to get the ball rolling. I explained he could transfer. I explained first year courses didn't matter. I explained it would save a __ton__ of money. I don't think he heard anything I said.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#138

Post by chiefalchemist »

closeparen wrote: post #126
CalRobert wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...entitled tto success..." It's not being entitled to success, it's terror at being a complete and utter loser, because we spend eighteen years drumming "if you don't go to college you'll be dirt poor, live in a van down by the river, and flip burgers" in to their heads. You're told constantly that if you don't go to college you're utter scum. Of course, the implication that flipping burgers is shameful is somethin…

Scum or not, the difference in outcomes is real [0]. Cultural memes about the importance of college are one part of how middle-class-ness is made to stick. The other part is money. For better or worse, the social contract is that education is paid forward across generations, from the middle class to their own children and from the rich to everyone. Crushing student debt load is the scar tissue that forms when when th…

Past performance is not indicative of future success. Add in AI / automation and __many__ middle office jobs are going to be replaced.

Finally, as covered in Duckworth's book "Grit" brains / education isn't the key.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#139

Post by [deleted] »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #36
cdoxsey wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that so many jobs require a college degree is a travesty. We should get teenagers into the workforce sooner and provide more relevant and on-the-job training.

Thos jobs will be replaced by AI. But let me see a Roomba fix your broken toilet.

[deleted]

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#140

Post by Retric »

joemi wrote: post #95
Retric wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's Bloomberg's money A large chunk of that money is subsidized by tax payers, as he would not keep the 1.8 Billion if he had bought a sports team or other vanity project that was not tax deductible. I am not saying spending taxpayer money to promote giving is a bad idea, but it is an expensive one that’s generally forgotten about.

If I’m understanding you correctly, it should be noted that paying for something (or donating to something) that does not require you to pay taxes is not the same thing at all as using taxpayer money. It’s not subsidized, is it? It’s just not taxed. (Do correct me if I’m wrong though.)

If you donate 100 $ and then get X dollars rebated from your taxes you donated 100 - X dollars.
Post reply on HN