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Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

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Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#31

Post by devwastaken »

dools wrote: post #7

The whole "opioid" shit fight can be summarised as: Pharmaceutical companies needed a way to profit from developing alternatives to morphine so they developed a bunch of dangerous bullshit then convinced everyone it was safer than morphine even though it's not. Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Prescribe morphine, including to heroin addicts w…

I think you're massively downplaying addiction. Sometimes it is physical pain at first, but you get hooked on it. Not everyone does heroin because they actually need that level of pain medication. They do it because it feels amazing. They get dependence on it, and then keep doing it. Read the Heroin diaries by Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue if you want a good look into that.

I don't know where you're getting that morphine isn't dangerous. It's highly addictive and deadly if dosed wrong, and you absolutely build tolerance over time which changes your dosing.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#32

Post by GordonS »

DanBC wrote: post #20

This article misses several points. When we ask people with a substance misuse disorder who use opioids what they started on we find, very often, that they started on meds prescribed by a doctor. Those meds may not have been prescribed to them - they may have been prescribed to a neighbour or family member - but they were prescribed. This is why the massive over-prescription of opioids is a problem. It floods America…

> Opioids may be a good choice for some people with long term pain (I personaly don't think they are)

They definately are for some people, because I'm one of them. I've tried everything else, and nothing even touches the pain.

I've tried numerous anticonvulsants (carbamazepine, lamotrigine, topiramate, levetiracetam, gabapentin, pregbalin...), tricyclics (amitriptyline, nortriptyline, dosulepin...), muscle-relaxants (tizanidine, diazepam...), anti-depressants (venlafaxine, reboxetine, duloxetine...), as well as NSAIDs like diclofenac, and assorted things like topical capsaicin and topical gabapentin. A lot of these made me dizzy and uncoordinated, where I couldn't function normally, and some made me extremely nauseous - while not touching the pain. The rest did nothing.

I realise I'm probably a statistical outlier, but I resent the idea that I should be left to suffer because my body and genetics don't conform to some p value from a meta-analysis.

Opioids should of course not be the first choice for chronic or neuropathic pain, because statistically other things are more effective and safer (e.g. pregbalin) - but doctors should not be prohibited from prescribing opioids when pain cannot be adequately controlled by other means.

If I had to deal with my chronic pain 24/7 without any pain relief... well, opioids have likely saved my life. I've been taking them for years now, and while I will obviously be physically dependant on them now (that's just how receptors work), I feel absolutely no psychological addiction to them whatsoever.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#33

Post by DanBC »

tomcam wrote: post #12
biehl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, err, yeah, let's write off anyone who sees this as a pro-pharma shill... ACSH does not seem like “anyone” but rather a documented pro-any-paying-industry-shill...

Did you actually read the article? Did you actually look at any of the statistics it discusses?

This gish gallop is a well known technique of disinformation designed to give the air of authenticity.

All of those graphs look truthy, and it would take someone a couple of hours to go through all of them (especially because the submitted article doesn't bother to link to many of the sources) and discover the truth.

Look at some of the sources - the Herald Dispatch?

And look at the dishonest way it's rpesenting some of the data. There's a graph titled "Drugs involved in US Overdose Deaths, 1999 to 2017" and the article says this graph is trying to tell us that pills prescribed by doctors are the real problem and that the graph is hiding fentanyl. But look at the source: https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/o...

That graph has this text (missed out by the article)

"Drugs Involved in U.S. Overdose Deaths* - Among the more than 72,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017*, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with nearly 30,000 overdose deaths. Source: CDC WONDER "

That's not hiding the fentanyl deaths.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#34

Post by GordonS »

adrianN wrote: post #27
dools wrote: post #7

The whole "opioid" shit fight can be summarised as: Pharmaceutical companies needed a way to profit from developing alternatives to morphine so they developed a bunch of dangerous bullshit then convinced everyone it was safer than morphine even though it's not. Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Prescribe morphine, including to heroin addicts w…

I think another important side effect that you neglect to mention is physical dependence on the drug and the need to constantly increase the dosage to achieve the same effect.

I don't think it's true that you always need to constantly increase the dosage.

I've been on the same dose of dihydrocodeine for years, and effectiveness is just the same today as when I started.

I do take magnesium daily, as opioids cause constipation and this helps. Magnesium is an NMDA antagonist, and there is a lot of evidence that these prevent the buildup of tolerance.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#35

Post by xorfish »

sintaxi wrote: post #13
xorfish wrote: post #6

I wonder how many death could be prevented by legalizing and regulating opioids and other drugs and educate users on different opioids and safe use.

Opioids are not stigmatized enough. They destroy lives plain and simple.

There are lots of opioids that are safer than alcohol. Sure none are completely save, but some have a lower overdose risk and are less damaging to the body.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#36

Post by dools »

bionoid wrote: post #29
dools wrote: post #7

The whole "opioid" shit fight can be summarised as: Pharmaceutical companies needed a way to profit from developing alternatives to morphine so they developed a bunch of dangerous bullshit then convinced everyone it was safer than morphine even though it's not. Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Prescribe morphine, including to heroin addicts w…

> Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. Honest question.... Long-term morphine use will not dull the mind?

Nothing I have ever read suggests any mental impact of morphine use.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#37

Post by dools »

devwastaken wrote: post #31
dools wrote: post #7

The whole "opioid" shit fight can be summarised as: Pharmaceutical companies needed a way to profit from developing alternatives to morphine so they developed a bunch of dangerous bullshit then convinced everyone it was safer than morphine even though it's not. Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Prescribe morphine, including to heroin addicts w…

I think you're massively downplaying addiction. Sometimes it is physical pain at first, but you get hooked on it. Not everyone does heroin because they actually need that level of pain medication. They do it because it feels amazing. They get dependence on it, and then keep doing it. Read the Heroin diaries by Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue if you want a good look into that. I don't know where you're getting that morphine…

A substance's addictive ness does not equate to lethality. The reason it's dosed incorrectly is because it is manufactured and sold in an unregulated environment.

That is the cause of its lethality.

Also I'm not referring exclusively to physical pain, but trauma or lack of emotional and social connection.

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#38

Post by dools »

DanBC wrote: post #24
dools wrote: post #7

The whole "opioid" shit fight can be summarised as: Pharmaceutical companies needed a way to profit from developing alternatives to morphine so they developed a bunch of dangerous bullshit then convinced everyone it was safer than morphine even though it's not. Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Prescribe morphine, including to heroin addicts w…

> So like, prescribe them the pain medication, then help them deal with the cause of the pain. A lot of pain, most pain probably, does not have a cause. It is this type of long term pain that is hardest to treat. We know psychological therapy helps people live their lives with pain (it's used with cancer patients), but patients reject it because "my pain is real, not in my head". We know weight loss and exercise help…

I'm not referring exclusively to physical pain

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#39

Post by dools »

adrianN wrote: post #27
dools wrote: post #7

The whole "opioid" shit fight can be summarised as: Pharmaceutical companies needed a way to profit from developing alternatives to morphine so they developed a bunch of dangerous bullshit then convinced everyone it was safer than morphine even though it's not. Morphine is awesome and has as its only long term side effect constipation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Prescribe morphine, including to heroin addicts w…

I think another important side effect that you neglect to mention is physical dependence on the drug and the need to constantly increase the dosage to achieve the same effect.

If the dosage can be safely consumed who cares if it needs to be increased?

Re: Who Is Telling the Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths?

#40

Post by boomboomsubban »

freyir wrote: post #2

The claim here is that opioids are not as bad as you've been led to believe. I'll let the article speak for itself, but note that ACSH has been frequently criticized for taking a pro-industry stance on issues: * In 1979, the information director of the FDA said, "Whelan just makes blanket endorsements of food additives. Her organization is a sham, an industry front." * Ralph Nader claimed: "ACSH is a consumer front o…

The beginning also links to another article they did on the subject, "The Opioid Epidemic In 6 Charts Designed To Deceive You." Trick 4, oddly containing no chart, is "blaming the drug companies." This is part of what they say, edited for length,

>Purdue, the makers of OxyContin was fined $653 million for its former actions. Other companies are now being investigated. But this is now irrelevant. Assigning blame may score some points with the readers, and provide fodder for trial attorneys, but does absolutely nothing to keep a single OD victim alive. Whatever certain companies did two decades ago is partly responsible for starting today's fentanyl OD epidemic, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with keeping it going.

That is absurd. "Yes I poisoned the water supply, but blaming me won't fix anything. It's not like I could do it again with all the poison I still have."

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/10/12/opioid-epidemic-6-chart...

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