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Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

nytimes.com

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Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#121

Post by CalRobert »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #24
closeparen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graduation rates as they are, college access is probably too high. Increasing selectivity would prevent the waste of time and money on programs people aren’t equipped to complete.

You can't expect the edus to say no to easy money. And the students are raised to think they are entitled tto success, whether they are cut out for that path or not. It's PC to say "everybody gets a degree." The reality is, that's a very expensive empty promise.

"...entitled tto success..."

It's not being entitled to success, it's terror at being a complete and utter loser, because we spend eighteen years drumming "if you don't go to college you'll be dirt poor, live in a van down by the river, and flip burgers" in to their heads.

You're told constantly that if you don't go to college you're utter scum.

Of course, the implication that flipping burgers is shameful is something we should address. We might also consider telling kids about all the successful career paths that don't require college - if my kid were looking at US levels of student debt I'd be suggesting plumbing, metal fabrication, etc. like crazy. You don't need to go to college to learn CNC, and the debt incurred going to college can destroy your life and robs the world of a creative, risk-taking individual. How many people would be making great things or solving the big problems of our time but instead are doing bullshit jobs because they have an enormous mountain of debt?

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#122

Post by ericmcer »

jseliger wrote: post #2

This is a fine thing to do with $1.8B and that amount could be used in worse ways. Still: Together, the federal and state governments should make a new commitment to improving access to college and reducing the often prohibitive burdens debt places on so many students and families. There may be no better investment that we can make in the future of the American dream — and the promise of equal opportunity for all. At…

Yeah it feels insane to me. Like if the price of milk went up to $50 a gallon the solution would be to increase supply, figure out alternative products, etc. A stupid solution would be to build a system of loans, government subsidies and other programs that allow people to pay the $50, but that seems to be our go to way to solve problems.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#123

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gesman wrote: post #18

" ... The Credit Suisse report has an entire chapter devoted to “the unlucky Millennials” who have been hit by rising debt and poorer job prospects. And it’s true. Recent reports from the Treasury Department show that the US government owns nearly $1.5 trillion in student loans. That’s pretty sad when you think about it: the US government’s #1 financial asset is debt owed by tens of millions of its young people for u…

> the US government’s #1 financial asset is debt owed by tens of millions of its young people

This is an odd metric. Most financial assets held by the U.S. government, broadly defined, are in the hands of the Federal Reserve. The Fed owns close to $4 trillion in securities.

Furthermore, given student loans held by the government aren’t really legally sellable, they’re more akin to federal lands than financial assets. Parcel in federally-owned energy and mineral rights and we’re talking about over $100 trillion [2].

Student debt holdings by the federal government are large. But they aren’t hyperbolically large.

[1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/h41.htm

[2] http://business.time.com/2013/02/05/the-federal-governments-...

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#124

Post by manigandham »

notSupplied wrote: post #116
manigandham wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering academia is vastly one-sided politically, influences the minds of entire graduating generations, and there has been fallout in major companies and even laws passed, the issues around "social justice" are in fact real and much bigger than you may think.

"Wow, geez, the Republican party is so one sided, like, everyone there is a Republican!" That is such an utterly meaningless argument. You can use that argument to challenge literally any well established fact regardless of it's merits. It is by this argument that increasingly extreme viewpoints have entered the political mainstream. E.g., "It's a problem that everyone in this room so one-sidedly believes the Holocau…

That's not what I said though, is it? Arguing against a made-up statement is indeed meaningless.

Academia is not a political party, and has all kinds of people, so being so one-sided politically is a valid concern. There's also a big difference between beliefs on issues and historical facts. Facts, by definition, cannot be debated as they are objective truths.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#125

Post by Flavius »

schalab wrote: post #65

People are suffering from taking too many pay day loans. I think I will donate 2 billion dollars to my local pay day lender. There, problem solved. Now people dont need to be worried about paying it back. I am sure they wont use this guaranteed income to jack up the rates more.

I get what you're saying, but surely keeping the money for himself or invest them in luxury real estate wouldn't have done any better.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#126

Post by closeparen »

CalRobert wrote: post #121
chiefalchemist wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect the edus to say no to easy money. And the students are raised to think they are entitled tto success, whether they are cut out for that path or not. It's PC to say "everybody gets a degree." The reality is, that's a very expensive empty promise.

"...entitled tto success..." It's not being entitled to success, it's terror at being a complete and utter loser, because we spend eighteen years drumming "if you don't go to college you'll be dirt poor, live in a van down by the river, and flip burgers" in to their heads. You're told constantly that if you don't go to college you're utter scum. Of course, the implication that flipping burgers is shameful is somethin…

Scum or not, the difference in outcomes is real [0]. Cultural memes about the importance of college are one part of how middle-class-ness is made to stick. The other part is money. For better or worse, the social contract is that education is paid forward across generations, from the middle class to their own children and from the rich to everyone. Crushing student debt load is the scar tissue that forms when when that social contract is violated, and a child receives the value system without the 529 account.

No one should want their child to be buried in a six-figure debt. But the answer, at least on the median HN reader's salary, is to save and invest 4-5 figures over each of your child's 18 years. That is what universities will expect when deciding what to charge you, and what the government endorsed when creating tax-advantaged accounts for that purpose.

I guess you could say "Not fair!" but the families that do this outperform the ones that don't, by wider and wider margins, and that right there is "rising inequality."

Just a few years out, my parents' investment has paid off handsomely. They don't want it back. They want it paid forward to my own kids. Morality notwithstanding, this particular belief system seems to be a winning a strategy.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/233301/median-household-...

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#127

Post by netcan »

jseliger wrote: post #2

This is a fine thing to do with $1.8B and that amount could be used in worse ways. Still: Together, the federal and state governments should make a new commitment to improving access to college and reducing the often prohibitive burdens debt places on so many students and families. There may be no better investment that we can make in the future of the American dream — and the promise of equal opportunity for all. At…

In this case it isn't "we," it's a specific person and it's a reflection of his take on the world.

I don't think there's any doubt that I think he outline his own thinking pretty well. He wants elite colleges to stay as they are now, but more meritocratic in their admissions. Same elite institution, students from lower income backgrounds.

It's an establishment-oriented donation, not a startup idea. He explains it pretty clearly.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#128

Post by closeparen »

sjg007 wrote: post #27
chiefalchemist wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect the edus to say no to easy money. And the students are raised to think they are entitled tto success, whether they are cut out for that path or not. It's PC to say "everybody gets a degree." The reality is, that's a very expensive empty promise.

We should really improve K-12 education. The fact that kids are not qualified for college after 18 years in public school is a travesty.

That any kids still have the curiosity and intrinsic motivation to thrive in college after 13 years in public school is a miracle.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#129

Post by geezerjay »

ericmcer wrote: post #122
jseliger wrote: post #2

This is a fine thing to do with $1.8B and that amount could be used in worse ways. Still: Together, the federal and state governments should make a new commitment to improving access to college and reducing the often prohibitive burdens debt places on so many students and families. There may be no better investment that we can make in the future of the American dream — and the promise of equal opportunity for all. At…

Yeah it feels insane to me. Like if the price of milk went up to $50 a gallon the solution would be to increase supply, figure out alternative products, etc. A stupid solution would be to build a system of loans, government subsidies and other programs that allow people to pay the $50, but that seems to be our go to way to solve problems.

I have yo agree. The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw the $1.8B figure was "with that kind of cash why doesn't he just launch his own university?". I mean, that astronomical level of cash is more than enough to keep a lot of high-paying jobs for some decades without any revenue at all, not to mention building the infrastructure. I'm sure he would be more than welcomed in any midsized city if he reached out to any local government asking for help building a college campus.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#130

Post by 1123581321 »

yesenadam wrote: post #82
born_a_beetle wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public schools shouldn't be dependent on the whims of philanthropic billionaires. They should be supported by the state. It goes against everything they were set up as.

Is anyone arguing that "Public schools should be dependent on the whims of philanthropic billionaires"?

If you follow the chain you replied to, born_a_beetle is saying that a consequence of such a donation to a state school would be a dependence on Bloomberg that is inappriate for public education. It’s clear that he or she is concerned about that as an unintended consequence of such a donation. No one is advocating for the unintended consequence to happen, but they are arguing for a course of action that born_a_beetle believes will have the negative consequence.

There’s a good article on unintended consequences here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequences A lot of debate in philanthropy policy deals with these, so it’s important to understand how someone can disagree with something no one has explicitly advocated for, but could happen if the advocated course is taken.

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