Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you win any game?
Caruana was a GM at 14. Unless EGreg is a very strong player, I don't think he was able to beat Caruana.
I happen to be pretty strong :)
Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
91–100 of 127 posts
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
AlphaGo engineers didn't really know how to configure Stockfish correctly. The computer itself was strong. But the weird timing setup, the disabled databases (ie: both opening book AND endgame book was disabled. Stockfish normally plays PERFECTLY when the board is reduced to 6 pieces or less, as well as perfectly knows the winner / loser in every 6-piece setup. But that was disabled for the AlphaGo games) Without the…
It's not that they didn't know how to configure it correctly; some of it was purposefully (and rightfully) disabled to see real difference between stockfish and AZ. Remember that if stockfish uses tablebases and opening books it's really "cheating" by using human knowledge. Although I am surprised that they reduced the hashtable so much and also used stockfish 8 when stockfish 9 was available. It was not RAM but just…
The programs are different programs. You can try it both ways, with and without the opening books. Because there are different configurations, in order to see who win must be specified by the configuration in use.
One way is to do according to the most capable configurations of each program, so that means Stockfish with all of them. Other way is to specify the same limits of time, memory, etc of each one, although that is still not the excuse to avoid the opening books and tablebases and so on unless they use up more memory than AlphaZero does.
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#93Another nail-biting draw!
It's hard to change a game that's so old, but draws shouldn't be allowed, only stalemates. Imagine if the Lakers played the Warriors, and late in the 4th quarter, the game is tied, and LeBron and Curry decide they are tired, declare a draw and go to their locker rooms. Not particularly satisfying.
You shouldn't comment so confidently about something you don't understand. The position is drawn. There was no way for either side to win.
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that they didn't know how to configure it correctly; some of it was purposefully (and rightfully) disabled to see real difference between stockfish and AZ. Remember that if stockfish uses tablebases and opening books it's really "cheating" by using human knowledge. Although I am surprised that they reduced the hashtable so much and also used stockfish 8 when stockfish 9 was available. It was not RAM but just…
Opening book I agree, but tablebases are definitely not human knowledge. They are a bruteforced database of every possible position, or in essence a precomputed position. Put simply, giving a massive time advantage to the user during the late middle and endgame. So if A0 wasn't built to access them, but stockfish did in the match, then that would be an unfair advantage.
> So if A0 wasn't built to access them, but stockfish did in the match, then that would be an unfair advantage.
Why is that an unfair advantage? AlphaZero developers wanted to prove that their AI was better than Stockfish.
They failed to do that. If AlphaZero wasn't built to access Tablebases, then they should have built it to access tablebases. Don't unfairly gimp Stockfish because you're lazy at programming.
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
AlphaGo engineers didn't really know how to configure Stockfish correctly. The computer itself was strong. But the weird timing setup, the disabled databases (ie: both opening book AND endgame book was disabled. Stockfish normally plays PERFECTLY when the board is reduced to 6 pieces or less, as well as perfectly knows the winner / loser in every 6-piece setup. But that was disabled for the AlphaGo games) Without the…
It's not that they didn't know how to configure it correctly; some of it was purposefully (and rightfully) disabled to see real difference between stockfish and AZ. Remember that if stockfish uses tablebases and opening books it's really "cheating" by using human knowledge. Although I am surprised that they reduced the hashtable so much and also used stockfish 8 when stockfish 9 was available. It was not RAM but just…
> Remember that if stockfish uses tablebases and opening books it's really "cheating" by using human knowledge.
I thought the "point" of AlphaZero was that it was better than the sum of human knowledge.
By the way: tablebases are computer generated. There is no human alive who knows all combinations of 6-piece endgames. Tablebases are brute-forced endgames, created by computers to be used by computers.
Stockfish itself was only really designed to play the midgame. Its designed to be used with both tablebases and opening databases.
> It was not RAM but just the hashtable size also their "test" has been replicated by plenty of people.
Citations please. I'd love to see a "proper" test of AlphaZero vs Stockfish.
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, 70 million nps or about ~3x 2950x threadrippers [2] is relatively weak cpu compared to 80 thousand nps or approximately 2x 2080tis [3] for Alphazero? > AlphaZero compensates for the lower number of evaluations by using its deep neural network to focus much more selectively on the most promising variation [1] Even if you compare CPU to GPU by price, and not speed, it seems pretty even. It clearly has to sacrifice…
AlphaGo engineers didn't really know how to configure Stockfish correctly. The computer itself was strong. But the weird timing setup, the disabled databases (ie: both opening book AND endgame book was disabled. Stockfish normally plays PERFECTLY when the board is reduced to 6 pieces or less, as well as perfectly knows the winner / loser in every 6-piece setup. But that was disabled for the AlphaGo games) Without the…
You can estimate pretty well even on average hardware by keeping the same 875x ratio using time odds. However, what is a fair comparison to either side depends on who you ask.
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#97Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#98Anybody have a suggestion for a site similar to this (engine analysis and all) but also with human commentary to explain things to those of us whose chess skill earlier stage?
/r/chess on reddit has been good at finding and linking useful commentary.
For example, here's a good move-by-move analysis of game 6, including (around the 33-minute mark) an explanation of the "missed" win:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yzaG0Ia_fs
And tl;dr for those not following the match: a chess engine analyzing the game found a line Caruana could have used to force a win in game 6 (the actual result was a draw), but it required making such an unnatural and normally bad move (trapping his own knight in a corner) for a relatively distant payoff that commentators pretty much all agree no human would ever have spotted or played it in a live game.
Here's Garry Kasparov, for example:
https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1063576827850096640
But had Caruana played the incredible 69.Bd5 Ne2 70.Bf3 Ng1!! they would request metal detectors immediately! No human can willingly trap his own knight like that.
Re: Chess World Championship: Stockfish live-analyzing game 7
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Caruana was a GM at 14. Unless EGreg is a very strong player, I don't think he was able to beat Caruana.
I happen to be pretty strong :)
National ELO of 1896, in case anyone else is curiy. https://chess-db.com/public/pinfo.jsp?id=3012853574