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The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

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Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#131

Post by eezurr »

preek wrote: post #4

As a Zen Monk, my answer to “What does it mean?” would be: “If I tell you, I deserve 30 blows. If I don’t tell you, I deserve 30 blows. Now, tell me: Why did I say so!” Zen Monk Alain M. Lafon, headmonk of Lambda Zen Temple of Glarus, Switzerland https://zen-temple.net/zen-temples/lambda-zen-temple/introdu...

I would guess that what the monk is communicating is that to think about "what does it mean" is to separate oneself from the meaning (i.e. the experience), which is the opposite of Zen. The goal is for you to be your true self. There is no true self in figuring out the meaning of something. Meaning comes from personally conducting the chaos of one's life (which is "the way"). To philosophize (or similar) something is to step too far into order (e.g. classifying objects instead of seeing an object as an action/existence), and to submit, yield, or do nothing is to step too far into chaos.

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#132

Post by agumonkey »

Zelphyr wrote: post #122
agumonkey wrote: post #117

Allow me to digress a tiny bit. After failing health, I had to find ways to calm my mind. So meditation~ was a ritual of mine for a while. It did help a bit, so I kept talking about it online. I went on a caribean island for 3 weeks. The climate, vegetation and loose rhythm of their lifestyle did more than meditation ever did (now I'm not trained so ..). But there's a deep deep thing that happen when you live in a hi…

One could argue that while you were sitting st that tiny river watching the animals and the flow of the water you were meditating. I believe, personally, this is likely how meditation was “discovered” in the first place.

Yes indeed, I wasn't really trying to oppose both. But I want to share that a good environment, with a deep nature, is a free and constant meditative context. While our society is quite the opposite.

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#133

Post by collyw »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #127
collyw wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like an alternative form of mediation. There are a lot of variations out there. >Just chuckle when your mind tells you something because you now know our mind operates from a place of fear and uncertainty. That sounds like what Buddhists or psyconauts describe as the ego, rather than the mind.

Ego resides in mind. Isn’t it?

Sure but its isn't your mind. Just an aspect of it (that often causes problems).

I had an interesting experience with psychedelics where my ego revealed itself as a kind of front or mask that I put on to impress other people. The personality that I reveal to the public. There was a whole other deeper part of my mind that was able to observe that. That was actually what got me started meditating.

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#134

Post by crispinb »

vbuwivbiu wrote: post #82

What do these 'meditators' do for a living ? How can they afford to spend their days sitting down doing essentially nothing ? Could they do this high-level mediation in a busy office with people on phone meetings all around them ?

They're monks, who have made an ethic and set of practices (including meditation) the focus of their life.

> Could they do this high-level mediation in a busy office with people on phone meetings all around them ?

There is no such claim. Probably not (or perhaps the experts can, but they couldn't have got to their current level of expertise that way)

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#135

Post by perseusprime11 »

collyw wrote: post #133
perseusprime11 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ego resides in mind. Isn’t it?

Sure but its isn't your mind. Just an aspect of it (that often causes problems). I had an interesting experience with psychedelics where my ego revealed itself as a kind of front or mask that I put on to impress other people. The personality that I reveal to the public. There was a whole other deeper part of my mind that was able to observe that. That was actually what got me started meditating.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am curious- how did your ego reveal itself during your experience with psychedelics? What form did it take? How did it talk to you?

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#136

Post by jcmeyrignac »

50 wrote: post #84
puranjay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practical terms, how do you feel meditation has changed you? Curious to learn more

I'm not an expert on meditation but I have a few thoughts on it. There is meditation where you sit down, become aware of the breath, body scan, etc, and that's fine and dandy but I don't find that's necessary. Rather one should remain with the bare self-conscious sense of ‘I am’ and just be. That's it! It's something like what Wu Hsin once wrote: "Wear the world like you would a loose-fitting shirt and don’t let it b…

A few years ago, I practiced meditation to help me accept some difficult times. At the same moment, I discovered Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj, they describe something similar to what you said. Very helpful ! I strongly recommend "Who Am I ?".

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#137

Post by collyw »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #135
collyw wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but its isn't your mind. Just an aspect of it (that often causes problems). I had an interesting experience with psychedelics where my ego revealed itself as a kind of front or mask that I put on to impress other people. The personality that I reveal to the public. There was a whole other deeper part of my mind that was able to observe that. That was actually what got me started meditating.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am curious- how did your ego reveal itself during your experience with psychedelics? What form did it take? How did it talk to you?

Its strange, its was like two parts of my mind talking to each other (as in inner talk). The closest I could describe it when you do something wrong and reflect on yourself / your actions, except it's in the present rather than the past. As I say, like two parts of my personality talking to themselves, though the non ego side was definitely a lot deeper, more objective and seemed like my "true self".

(Psychedelics are definitely strange, the hallucinations come and go. At some points like that one I felt quite "with it", just inner talk. Often once you have "sorted out" things like that the pleasant stuff live visions begin, though I think they affect everyone differently).

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#138

Post by dwaltrip »

vbuwivbiu wrote: post #99
AltruisticGap wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put very curedly, they're getting high. And, everybody's getting high. Life is about pleasure. If you found out that you can feel really, really good by sitting and doing nothing... would you do it? Of course you would. :) Now the stark reality however, is that to be able to sit and meditate properly requires to be already at home in the body. Any amount of trauma will make that particularly difficult. As soon as you…

"If you found out that you can feel really, really good by sitting and doing nothing... would you do it? Of course you would. :)" Nope, I'd go for walk. Meditation is passive and lazy. Being outside in nature with the sounds of the birds and the UV light, being actually connected with the universe, being alive.

> Meditation is passive and lazy.

Meditation is about training the mind to be more aware, more purposefully attentive, and more equanimous. As you can imagine, there are many benefits to achieving this.

It's not simply sitting and daydreaming, even though it can sometimes feel like that as a beginner, which is totally normal :)

For beginners, the important part is to just practice noticing each instance of daydreaming or getting lost thinking about something, without judgment. Each time one notices it is actually a victory to enjoy, not a bad thing.

Re: The Remarkable Brain Waves of High Level Meditators [video]

#139

Post by paulsutter »

For graphs and data, this published paper[1] is referenced by the book mentioned in the article. I quote the book below[2], which has only slightly more detail than the article (I bought the book hoping to see more data, a waste)

[1] http://www.pnas.org/content/101/46/16369.full.pdf

Long-term meditators self-induce high-amplitude gamma synchrony during mental practice. Antoine Lutz, Lawrence L. Greischar, Nancy B. Rawlings, Matthieu Ricard, and Richard J. Davidson

[2] (from the book)

"Gamma, the very fastest brain wave, occurs when differing brain regions fire in harmony, like moments of insight when different elements of a mental puzzle “click” together… In the yogis, gamma oscillations are a far more prominent feature of their brain activity than in other people… on average the yogis had twenty-five times greater amplitude gamma oscillations during baseline compared to the control group.

"No brain lab had ever before seen gamma oscillations that persist for minutes rather than split seconds, are so strong, and are in synchrony across widespread regions of the brain.

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