Live data from Hacker News

Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

curbed.com

71–80 of 107 posts

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#71
This is a very insightful article. Every discussion about high prices in cities usually ends into a big argument about rent control, but, in my opinion this is rarely the real issue. Rent control laws in the US are rather weak, and the percentage of rent controlled units is ever decreasing.

I think this article points to a much more important issue. And that is existing real estate owners acting to keep the value of their holdings as high as possible, i.e., to keep prices as high as possible. A lot of the wealth in America is locked up in real estate and this is especially the case in large cities. The landowner lobby (although they do not call themselves that) is quite powerful.

Actually the fact that rent control comes up so often as an issue is just another piece of evidence that the landowner lobby is so powerful that they are able to completely control the conversation. When faced with what is basically an accusation that they are gouging the population they turn it around and declare that the few weak laws that slightly reduce their ability to gouge are really the problem.

And while rent control is a point of contention, the real way the landowner lobby keeps prices high is by restricting new construction. This is a much more important factor than rent control.

A very important issue here is that homeowners and landlords are much more active in most political processes. If one person decides that he will dedicate his life on ownership of land and will make that the main source of his income, he will easily see that it is important to devote time and energy in a lot of the rather tedious local political processes. If a second person decides to dedicate his life to some type of profession or art instead, then local politics tend to become a bore and a time waster. But then the second person is not at the table when important decisions are made and his interests are negatively impacted.

So the general answer is to be more active in politics. But how to be more active in politics?

Here is an issue that the article did not really touch upon. The most important requirement for more construction and higher density living is the availability of infrastructure. Nobody will approve high density buildings without the infrastructure, nobody wants to create Mumbai style tenement cities.

And the most important and most expensive part of infrastructure is transportation. Look at any successful large city in the world -- they are usually defined by their subway system. After all the subway is the only sane way to move large number of people around in a very dense environment.

In fact the main battle against development of LA has been fought for the last 20-30 years over the LA subway. There have been some very successful attempts to slow down and block the development of the subway launched mostly by neighborhood groups. As a result the subway came in much later than originally planned and the most important and most desired line (the purple line) is still only a tiny fraction of what it should be.

So if you want to help create more housing it is always best to vote in favor of new transportation projects, especially high density high efficiency projects, like the subway.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#72
post #11

These article are pretty ridiculous and I see this political bent more and more on here. The article/book makes a huge leap in assuming progressive cities are somehow worse at housing. The reality is people actually want to live there. The most densely populated cities in the US, and in general all cities, lean left politically. Finding new housing is important but we're really losing perspective on how successful th…

Your assuming the government made the city desirable. An argument can be made that geography made the city desirable and government made it less.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#73
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rent control" is the idea that people already living in a city have more rights to live there than people who are not. While it may sound socially just it is also one of most un-progressive (conservative) things you can imagine. It literally conserves the population of a given district.

And market rents are the idea that people with more money then you have the right to live in your apartment then you do. Neither is fair, but both are unfair in different ways. Your preference for market distribution, as opposed to lottery distribution (which is what rent control essentially is) is largely an ideological one.

Yes, it is an ideological preference. Rent control is conservative, market distribution is liberal. I just point that people really really want to be called progressive without being one.

You can't be progressive and conservative at the same time! You can barely be progressive if you hold conservative view on one of the most important issues. You can only be centrist that way.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#74
post #48
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control being bad for the housing market is one of the few generally agreed upon conclusions across the political spectrum of economists https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentControl.html > Economists are virtually unanimous in concluding that rent controls are destructive. In a 1990 poll of 464 economists published in the May 1992 issue of the American Economic Review, 93 percent of U.S. respondents agreed, e…

The reason this subject is tough is because quantity and quality do not necessarily lead to affordability for the same population as rent control. Laissez Faire economics always works for the faceless theoretical self interested actor but how are rising prices and new builds going to help to someone from being priced out? It can't. If it did, the control would be benign anyway.

> quantity and quality do not necessarily lead to affordability for the same population as re t control.

Rent control is not need-based. People across the wealth spectrum enjoy the personal benefits of rent control (in SF there is no shortage of housholds bringing home several hundred thousand dollars a year who pay way below market rents on their rent-controlled apartments).

The problem with getting rid of it is that the benefits of more housing supply relative to demand would probably take decades to come to fruition. But the pain of suddenly losing rent control (for the percentage of people who actually do need it) is felt immediately. Who cares if your city will have lots of cheap housing in a decade if you can't pay rent next month?

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#75
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how rent control works in any city in the US that I know of. Everywhere I know of rent control only applies to significantly older buildings. Which means that new buildings can charge much higher prices, which means that rent control actually encourages new buildings. The only time some type of rent control applies for new buildings is when they are specifically built as "affordable housing". This usually…

> Everywhere I know of rent control only applies to significantly older buildings. Which means that new buildings can charge much higher prices, which means that rent control actually encourages new buildings. New buildings are what become older buildings. If that causes them to become less valuable, they become less valuable immediately because the future loss gets priced in, making them less valuable to construct.…

In all the major cities I know of (and this includes san francisco and los angeles), if there is rent control it is set for buildings older than a fixed date (usually somewhere about 1979). So no, newer buildings will not become covered by rent control unless the laws are drastically changed.

Furthermore, in California the Ellis act allows landlords to mass evict rent controlled tenants in order to demolish a building for new construction, so your second point is not valid either.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#76
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have to be a trauma? After all, most people don't live with their parents forever. Finding your own place is a rite of passage. Most college students graduate and move somewhere else. One way of preventing trauma would be to make sure people don't have to move. Another way would be to make moving something to look forward to, rather than a trauma.

Yes, of course having to move due to no longer being able to afford living in the place you've lived on for say 10+ years, downsizing probably not only in living space, but also quality of surroundings, is comparable to leaving your college dorm in your early 20s. I guess one way of preventing trauma is pretending it doesn't exist by making ridiculus comparisons.

It wasn't intended to be that close an analogy, but okay, here's another scenario: many retirees in the Northeast move to Florida and love it.

(And if you don't like that scenario either, maybe you can come up with a better one?)

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#77
post #23

> a shortage of new construction, a lack of tenant protection "Tenant protection" -- especially rent control -- is a nontrivial cause of the shortage of new construction. High rents are a signal to developers that there is money to be made constructing new housing. If it's not possible to make the money, they won't do the construction, which is what rent control causes. You get a population of existing residents with…

I think you're wrong. In Prague, they started removing rent controls several years ago, and we have seen highest increase in property values in maybe three decades. Also, if I owned some property, I am not sure I would want to invest in building new one and have to decrease rent rather than enjoy the fact that the rent is high. All in all, I suspect that rent control might be quite insignificant factor in housing sca…

> In Prague, they started removing rent controls several years ago, and we have seen highest increase in property values in maybe three decades.

Property values are not the same as rents or general housing costs. As soon as you make construction more profitable, it makes the land worth more -- property values go up. But then the construction happens and housing costs, i.e. price per unit, go down as a result of more units.

Before you had two housing units on $500K in land going for $1000/month. After the land is worth $2M but it has 20 housing units going for $750 -- and the landlord is making more revenue, because 20x$750 is more than 2x$1000, enough to offset the higher property cost.

> Also, if I owned some property, I am not sure I would want to invest in building new one and have to decrease rent rather than enjoy the fact that the rent is high.

Rent doesn't materially decrease as a result of one person building one building, it's a result of many new buildings across the city. So your choice isn't between the existing two units at $1000 and twenty new ones at $750 (though even that itself is still profitable), because if you do nothing the existing units will still fall to $750 each as a result of what other people do once they're allowed to do it.

> More important is probably lack of actual housing construction financed by government.

Actual construction subsidies might help when you have a massive shortage and you want it correct it quickly, but in general it isn't necessary -- when rents are high and construction is permitted, it happens.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#78
post #14

> a shortage of new construction, a lack of tenant protection "Tenant protection" -- especially rent control -- is a nontrivial cause of the shortage of new construction. High rents are a signal to developers that there is money to be made constructing new housing. If it's not possible to make the money, they won't do the construction, which is what rent control causes. You get a population of existing residents with…

Why aren't there developers that are willing to make 17% margins instead of 20% margins? You know what I'm saying. Related Group has always been happy to and does to this day build luxury units that get scooped up by elite Venezuelans and Russians. Who will build non-luxury units? The owners will claim they're luxury for the next 40 years, so there's no real trickle down effect.

There are lots of developers who are happy to build at low margins. In fact a lot of developers make their money by charging a flat fee for managing the project and don't take any upside at all. Plus there are plenty of non-profit developers out there.

The problem is that there are fixed costs associated with building a unit of housing - city approval fees, construction costs, land - which are more or less independent of what kind of housing you're building and how 'luxury' it is. So there is a floor on the cost of housing in any given location. Then you have to factor in lenders and their requirements - how much interest they'll charge and what % of the project cost they'll lend you. Since lenders almost never will lend 100% of the project cost you need equity investors too, and they generally have expected project returns. Of course you can find non-profit entities at all these layers who will help you refuce costs it's hard to out together a project in a major city that is anything less than expensive these days.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#79
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not a federal, or even state issue it is very much a locality issue. One which is unique to a given locality and is well within their rights to legislate. It's for the same reason right to farm laws exist, no community wants to give up its right of self direction to outsiders. Even if in many ways it's not to benifit of its neighbors.

Right, if people who live there want to prevent apartments from being built, that will drive up costs. Why does that need to be prevented? Why is the lack of affordable housing a crisis? Eventually it seems the market will level out. If people can't afford to live there then industries will leave. At that point people living there will have to decide if that's okay or they should change policy to be more accompanying…

Most communities try and walk a fine line trying to prevent boom and bust cycles.

While creative destruction is a necessary part of free market theory it is beyond scary when it comes to peoples communities. That fear and the reality that some of the losers of the market correction are people that one may know personally are why that true free market is never seen in housing.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#80

If it is bad policy, then can someone help explain why unaffordable housing is currently a world-wide issue?

Apparently supply-demand laws are more universal than those of Newton and self-regulating free market will soon reach climax ejaculating on our faces.
Post reply on HN