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Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

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Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#31

Post by Bucephalus355 »

thrav wrote: post #24
jayd16 wrote: post #11

These article are pretty ridiculous and I see this political bent more and more on here. The article/book makes a huge leap in assuming progressive cities are somehow worse at housing. The reality is people actually want to live there. The most densely populated cities in the US, and in general all cities, lean left politically. Finding new housing is important but we're really losing perspective on how successful th…

There’s no denying that building is a hell of a lot easier in a place like Houston without zoning than anywhere else though.

Grew up in Houston and now live in Austin and your statement is 100% accurate. Housing in Houston means you can get an 1800 ft house for 90k 15 miles from downtown. In Northwest Austin, let’s say 20 miles from the city center, such a house would cost 300k plus.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#32

Post by vkou »

doombolt wrote: post #10
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #3

> a shortage of new construction, a lack of tenant protection "Tenant protection" -- especially rent control -- is a nontrivial cause of the shortage of new construction. High rents are a signal to developers that there is money to be made constructing new housing. If it's not possible to make the money, they won't do the construction, which is what rent control causes. You get a population of existing residents with…

"Rent control" is the idea that people already living in a city have more rights to live there than people who are not. While it may sound socially just it is also one of most un-progressive (conservative) things you can imagine. It literally conserves the population of a given district.

And market rents are the idea that people with more money then you have the right to live in your apartment then you do.

Neither is fair, but both are unfair in different ways. Your preference for market distribution, as opposed to lottery distribution (which is what rent control essentially is) is largely an ideological one.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#33

Post by thenanyu »

shse wrote: post #5

Cities are full. US population has doubled since 1960. If we get rid of zoning we will end up with overpopulated cities like Hong-Kong, Jakarta, Moscow, Tokyo.

I love Tokyo and HK. They are wonderful cities to live in and have terrific public services. Have you been to the cities you named?

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#34

Post by skybrian »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #25
skybrian wrote: post #9

A philosophical question: is it ever okay for someone to have to move away to find affordable housing? Or do we say that once someone becomes resident of a community, they should be able to live there forever? (This isn't just renting; there are similar issues with home owners and property tax increases.)

I think the greater context here misses the trauma behind being forced to move out of a home. Being separated from your social network, familiar surroundings, into a new and unknown environment can be highly traumatizing to the people who move and the community which loses its members. Children have their educations interrupted, elders lose a family of support, adults need to forge new friendships in a time where we…

Does it have to be a trauma? After all, most people don't live with their parents forever. Finding your own place is a rite of passage.

Most college students graduate and move somewhere else.

One way of preventing trauma would be to make sure people don't have to move. Another way would be to make moving something to look forward to, rather than a trauma.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#35

Post by jayd16 »

Domark wrote: post #20
jayd16 wrote: post #11

These article are pretty ridiculous and I see this political bent more and more on here. The article/book makes a huge leap in assuming progressive cities are somehow worse at housing. The reality is people actually want to live there. The most densely populated cities in the US, and in general all cities, lean left politically. Finding new housing is important but we're really losing perspective on how successful th…

The problem is, I've been hearing about these problems since I lived there in 1995. 1995 would have given an intelligent species enough time to build a money-losing, poor-people housing skyscraper or two. Yes building vertically in crowded places is a challenge and expensive but those are just excuses. Since 1995 they could have figured out a way to get the job done, so now we have to examine what the problems are.

But again, you're starting at the point of assuming failure, when in fact these cities are the most dense. Feel free to examine but the core assumption that this is obviously the wrong way to do it is baseless.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#36

Post by mynegation »

Domark wrote: post #20
jayd16 wrote: post #11

These article are pretty ridiculous and I see this political bent more and more on here. The article/book makes a huge leap in assuming progressive cities are somehow worse at housing. The reality is people actually want to live there. The most densely populated cities in the US, and in general all cities, lean left politically. Finding new housing is important but we're really losing perspective on how successful th…

The problem is, I've been hearing about these problems since I lived there in 1995. 1995 would have given an intelligent species enough time to build a money-losing, poor-people housing skyscraper or two. Yes building vertically in crowded places is a challenge and expensive but those are just excuses. Since 1995 they could have figured out a way to get the job done, so now we have to examine what the problems are.

I am all for vertical build but this idea is scary. The standards for maintaining tall buildings are especially high. There is a high chance this ends up being Kowloon city or going down in flames like Grenfell Tower.

Let alone the political optics of putting a lot of poor people into a very limited space.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#37

Post by gaadd33 »

Domark wrote: post #20
jayd16 wrote: post #11

These article are pretty ridiculous and I see this political bent more and more on here. The article/book makes a huge leap in assuming progressive cities are somehow worse at housing. The reality is people actually want to live there. The most densely populated cities in the US, and in general all cities, lean left politically. Finding new housing is important but we're really losing perspective on how successful th…

The problem is, I've been hearing about these problems since I lived there in 1995. 1995 would have given an intelligent species enough time to build a money-losing, poor-people housing skyscraper or two. Yes building vertically in crowded places is a challenge and expensive but those are just excuses. Since 1995 they could have figured out a way to get the job done, so now we have to examine what the problems are.

Isn't that what the "towers in a park" style of public housing from the 60s and 70s are? From that we've found that it isn't a good solution, eg Cabrini–Green Homes or Robert Taylor Homes

I think people have been looking into these issues for far longer than 1995.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#38

Post by jeffbax »

js8 wrote: post #23
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #3

> a shortage of new construction, a lack of tenant protection "Tenant protection" -- especially rent control -- is a nontrivial cause of the shortage of new construction. High rents are a signal to developers that there is money to be made constructing new housing. If it's not possible to make the money, they won't do the construction, which is what rent control causes. You get a population of existing residents with…

I think you're wrong. In Prague, they started removing rent controls several years ago, and we have seen highest increase in property values in maybe three decades. Also, if I owned some property, I am not sure I would want to invest in building new one and have to decrease rent rather than enjoy the fact that the rent is high. All in all, I suspect that rent control might be quite insignificant factor in housing sca…

Rent control being bad for the housing market is one of the few generally agreed upon conclusions across the political spectrum of economists

https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentControl.html

> Economists are virtually unanimous in concluding that rent controls are destructive. In a 1990 poll of 464 economists published in the May 1992 issue of the American Economic Review, 93 percent of U.S. respondents agreed, either completely or with provisos, that “a ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available.”

Your gut instinct, like most on this issue, is incorrect. When removing rent control, it is going to take time for things to finally settle to the real prices as well as actual development to get started, but its certainly good for the long run to do away with it.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#39

Post by AnthonyMouse »

vkou wrote: post #32
doombolt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rent control" is the idea that people already living in a city have more rights to live there than people who are not. While it may sound socially just it is also one of most un-progressive (conservative) things you can imagine. It literally conserves the population of a given district.

And market rents are the idea that people with more money then you have the right to live in your apartment then you do. Neither is fair, but both are unfair in different ways. Your preference for market distribution, as opposed to lottery distribution (which is what rent control essentially is) is largely an ideological one.

The notable difference is that the market distribution causes greater incentives for construction in high demand areas, so it doesn't just affect who gets the apartments, it affects how many apartments there are to get.

And only one of them makes it possible for both you and the person with more money than you to have an apartment.

Re: Why affordable housing is scarce in progressive cities

#40

Post by techsupporter »

shse wrote: post #15
angersock wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Houston.

They have deed restrictions.

And aren’t most of those deed restrictions for perpetuity so, unlike zoning, the property can never be used for something else?
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