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The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

newyorker.com

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Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#11

Post by bradleyjg »

For the nation as a whole it's a bad deal, in a prisoner's dilemma if everyone cooperates the payoff matrix is globally optimal. But for New York City it's a good deal, and those claiming otherwise refuse to look at the math and instead want to go with how the deal makes them feel.

$150,000 x 25,000 = $3.75B/year. At NYS + NYC effective tax rate of around 9.25% at that income level that's around 350MM in income tax alone. That doesn't include the taxes that Amazon itself will eventually pay, nor any of the knock on economic effects of injecting all that extra money into the local economy. For NYS and NYC this deal is a no brainer.

The federal government is supposed to be the mechanism whereby coordination problems like this are solved. But the federal government (for a long time now, this isn't specifically about the current administration) if anything seems to want to encourage this kind of thing, not discourage them.

So here we are. You can rant and rave about the perfidy of actors acting rationally or you can work to change the rules of the game so as to produce an outcome you think more desirable. I know which one I think is more productive.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#12

Post by howard941 »

watertom wrote: post #5

Amazon negotiated in bad faith and as such any deals should be voided. I'd like to NYC mayor call out Amazon instead of allowing the good people of NYC to be railroaded. What the cities have submitted were nothing more than proposals, they are not contracts and are not binding. Considering the new information that has come to light mayor de Blasio. More than anything Northern Virginia should withdraw their proposal,…

> I'd like to NYC mayor call out Amazon instead of allowing the good people of NYC to be railroaded.

The announcement goosed property values in Brooklyn and Queens. I wouldn't be on a call out anytime soon.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#14

Post by bilbo0s »

watertom wrote: post #5

Amazon negotiated in bad faith and as such any deals should be voided. I'd like to NYC mayor call out Amazon instead of allowing the good people of NYC to be railroaded. What the cities have submitted were nothing more than proposals, they are not contracts and are not binding. Considering the new information that has come to light mayor de Blasio. More than anything Northern Virginia should withdraw their proposal,…

>I'd like to NYC mayor call out Amazon instead of allowing the good people of NYC to be railroaded...

To be honest this is part of the problem. The Mayor IS deadset against giving any subsidies, but it doesn't matter. The state politicians can still do whatever they want.

So you're talking about "the good people of NYC", but that's not the level at which the decisions are being made. Same thing happened to us in Wisconsin. Maybe you had some mayors around the state dead set against giving Foxconn anything, but Walker is the governor, (or WAS the governor rather), so it didn't matter.

In short, de Blasio can call out whatever he wants, but he'll get nowhere. (In fact he has been calling it out, and got nowhere with it anyway.)

The answer really is to put these deals to a vote. We need a law that makes it so that politicians can still make these deals, but they are null and void until approved by a popular referendum.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#15

Post by prolikewh0a »

abalone wrote: post #10
claydavisss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Withdrawl would require politicians admitting they were duped. In NY, Democrats have a monopoly on power so they have no need to be responsive to voters.

Poppycock. One of the top stories from this election is how establishment NY Dems are facing a challenge from the left, e.g. Ocasio-Cortez who is critical of the Amazon deal.[1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/13/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ama...

Cynthia Nixon was also a thorn in Cuomo's side during the primaries, and much further left.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#16

Post by prolikewh0a »

victor106 wrote: post #9
claydavisss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Withdrawl would require politicians admitting they were duped. In NY, Democrats have a monopoly on power so they have no need to be responsive to voters.

This monopoly on power which exists in many states across the US is IMHO very bad. I always theorize that the US would be better if the red states voted blue and the blue states voted red.

Nothing would change. There's only one party in this country, the Property, War, & Corporate Party.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#17

Post by xxpor »

howard941 wrote: post #12
watertom wrote: post #5

Amazon negotiated in bad faith and as such any deals should be voided. I'd like to NYC mayor call out Amazon instead of allowing the good people of NYC to be railroaded. What the cities have submitted were nothing more than proposals, they are not contracts and are not binding. Considering the new information that has come to light mayor de Blasio. More than anything Northern Virginia should withdraw their proposal,…

> I'd like to NYC mayor call out Amazon instead of allowing the good people of NYC to be railroaded. The announcement goosed property values in Brooklyn and Queens. I wouldn't be on a call out anytime soon.

NYC is majority renter.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#19

Post by bilbo0s »

bradleyjg wrote: post #11

For the nation as a whole it's a bad deal, in a prisoner's dilemma if everyone cooperates the payoff matrix is globally optimal. But for New York City it's a good deal, and those claiming otherwise refuse to look at the math and instead want to go with how the deal makes them feel. $150,000 x 25,000 = $3.75B/year. At NYS + NYC effective tax rate of around 9.25% at that income level that's around 350MM in income tax a…

As someone facing the implications of a not so good deal in Wisconsin, I agree with Bradley here, NYC got a VERY good deal. It's just that my experience in Wisconsin has made me look at all of these sorts of deals in a different light.

We need to have something like "checks and balances" on these things. Sometimes they just get way out of hand.

Re: The New York Hustle of Amazon’s Second Headquarters

#20

Post by jblow »

claydavisss wrote: post #7
thenanyu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are benchmarks baked into the deal, so no jobs = no tax breaks. The cities should have known better than to play this game, but at least there's that.

Not true, only a portion is tied to job creation goals

It’s tax breaks. If you don’t employ enough people, you won’t be paying enough taxes to take advantage of tax breaks anyway.
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