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Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

theverge.com

61–70 of 150 posts

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#61

Oh please. The headline might as well have been: We need to protect people from information and ideas we don't agree with. Freedom of speech is not just about speech, its about ideas. Nobody should ever be deemed the arbiter of truth. Not Facebook, not the government, not anyone. Decentralize the social networks. Let everyone speak, even the bad people. Realize that you actually make the problem worse by suppressing…

The problem is the signal to noise ratio is getting so bad that you don’t know what information to trust.

Please, please, let me decide for myself what is information, and what is noise.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#62

Fake news is a symtpom, not a cause. To fight fake news, we'd have to go to the sources (note: this is mostly off the top of my head): * Fight partisanship/polarization. Not sure how to do this. But taking a big step back and trying to discuss things without labels would be a good start. And who knows... maybe a different voting system to encourage more parties to exist? There's a lot to do here. * Fight corruption.…

democracy is a popularity contest based on emotion. If you remove emotion you will have something else.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#63

After the Trump election where I interestingly enough found myself agreeing with a lot of the critique of the current political system coming from both Sanders and Trump even though I would normally consider myself part of the liberal political spectrum (pro-abortion, against the death sentence, couldn't care less if gay people get married etc) I started digging into things I had taken for granted such as Breibart be…

I completely agree, having found myself in a similar same situation. +1 to Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin; I'd also recommend the Hoover Institution's YouTube channel.

Having watched a bunch of these videos, I actually feel more confident in my disagreement with certain political figures - for example, John Bolton - having heard them out and better understood their position. Of course, I'm also more sympathetic to some people and positions that I didn't fully understand before.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#64
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> signal to noise ratio This is another euphemism for hearing ideas you disagree with. You choose who to friend/follow/read. Occasionally those people will say things you don't agree with. > you don’t know what information to trust Just because someone landed a job at [fill in traditional media outlet] does not make them more trustworthy. You're simply being exposed to the reality that their bullshit is just as much…

So you're telling me that russian bots spreading lies are merely "ideas you disagree with"? I can't... I can't... jesus...

Words "Russian", and "bots" are absolutely irrelevant for the discussion. "Lies" is relevant, but who is the authority to decide what belongs to the category? The whole Free Speech thing is invented exactly because history of humanity many times proved that mandatory filtering of information inevitably leads to abuse, and to lies which you want to counter.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> signal to noise ratio This is another euphemism for hearing ideas you disagree with. You choose who to friend/follow/read. Occasionally those people will say things you don't agree with. > you don’t know what information to trust Just because someone landed a job at [fill in traditional media outlet] does not make them more trustworthy. You're simply being exposed to the reality that their bullshit is just as much…

So you're telling me that russian bots spreading lies are merely "ideas you disagree with"? I can't... I can't... jesus...

Why is everything a Russian bot? That conspiracy needs to end. The American media lies to you constantly (Manufacturing Consent, Chomsky), politicians lie to you constantly, advertising lies to you constantly. This isn't one big Russian scheme, it's simply capital.

Was this Russia?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i...

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#66

Oh please. The headline might as well have been: We need to protect people from information and ideas we don't agree with. Freedom of speech is not just about speech, its about ideas. Nobody should ever be deemed the arbiter of truth. Not Facebook, not the government, not anyone. Decentralize the social networks. Let everyone speak, even the bad people. Realize that you actually make the problem worse by suppressing…

The problem is the signal to noise ratio is getting so bad that you don’t know what information to trust.

Why am I able to find information I can trust easily, verifiable among many different non-mainstream sources that are nearly always accurate?

The most important thing is to get off Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Snapchat, etc, find some independent news sites you like, and be very skeptical.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#67
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> signal to noise ratio This is another euphemism for hearing ideas you disagree with. You choose who to friend/follow/read. Occasionally those people will say things you don't agree with. > you don’t know what information to trust Just because someone landed a job at [fill in traditional media outlet] does not make them more trustworthy. You're simply being exposed to the reality that their bullshit is just as much…

So you're telling me that russian bots spreading lies are merely "ideas you disagree with"? I can't... I can't... jesus...

[deleted]

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#68
There seems to be a lot of concern trolling over democracy and Western freedoms which soberly urge us to not be so concerned with democracy and Western freedoms and instead accept new, deeper forms of censorship and greater collaboration between state, corporate and intelligence actors regarding the free flow of information in our society.

Stamos' piece in the Washington Post and statements elsewhere are vague, weird and poorly thought-out assertions which demand we accept Russiagate and WikiLeaks source attribution positions favoured by US intel agencies in full, and then only obsess over a very narrow set of concerns.

Analytically-minded technologists are still asking what magical GRU-election-swinging manipulations were just out of the grasp of the multi-billion dollar domestic presidential campaign industry, and why for instance the revelation of corruption within the DNC was the damaging issue, rather than the corruption itself. Stamos says major media 'rewarded the hackers' by reporting truth, and in The Verge's lazy retelling they transmute even this truth into 'misinformation'. It's low quality discussion and debate all around.

If an establishment paper broke the DNC corruption story first and naturally refused to disclose sources, or received them anonymously and so was unable to disclose them, what then?

Is Stamos and the 'Fake News Defense' movement saying we need to end all anonymously-sourced journalism? All investigative journalism? Any journalism which is damaging to key political, corporate and intelligence individuals and entities within the US? Because surely there's a risk that type of journalism may have been aided in some as-yet-unknown way by hostile foreign actors.

How could you definitively prove it was not?

Why not go even deeper into the 'fake news / foreign agents' madness:

Imagine the GRU want the US polity to over-react and implement a draconian press censorship reality 'immune from foreign influence'. In this scenario an even-more-untouchable political / corporate / intelligence class arises and - immune from scandals, consequence and the disinfecting power of transparency - is allowed to ossify in a cesspool of increased corruption and incompetence - weakening the state from the center.

Perhaps we can just go full-circle to this as a public establishment conspiracy theory and have Stamos and intel agencies agreeing that free speech as an inviolable principle is the best defence against whatever bogeyman is in fashion.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#70
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> signal to noise ratio This is another euphemism for hearing ideas you disagree with. You choose who to friend/follow/read. Occasionally those people will say things you don't agree with. > you don’t know what information to trust Just because someone landed a job at [fill in traditional media outlet] does not make them more trustworthy. You're simply being exposed to the reality that their bullshit is just as much…

So you're telling me that russian bots spreading lies are merely "ideas you disagree with"? I can't... I can't... jesus...

Yes, because that's exactly what it is. They are ideas. And you disagree with them.

It's very simple - anyone can assert anything, thus each individual must take it upon themselves to be skeptical of the assertion, or blindly agree with it.

The real problem you're getting at here is that many people are dumb, and may be made to believe anything.

If these people became skeptical or were simply deleted from reality, such bots would have no value.

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