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Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

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Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#41

Post by noetic_techy »

ThomPete wrote: post #15

After the Trump election where I interestingly enough found myself agreeing with a lot of the critique of the current political system coming from both Sanders and Trump even though I would normally consider myself part of the liberal political spectrum (pro-abortion, against the death sentence, couldn't care less if gay people get married etc) I started digging into things I had taken for granted such as Breibart be…

Exactly. You and I have gone down the same rabbit hole and realized that its not as clear cut as they claim.

The pompousness and shaming has to end in order for us all to come together.

Blaming everything on this false spectre of "misinformation" is nonsense. It's a veiled attempt to treat everyone who disagree with you as stupid.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#42

Post by cabaalis »

ThomPete wrote: post #15

After the Trump election where I interestingly enough found myself agreeing with a lot of the critique of the current political system coming from both Sanders and Trump even though I would normally consider myself part of the liberal political spectrum (pro-abortion, against the death sentence, couldn't care less if gay people get married etc) I started digging into things I had taken for granted such as Breibart be…

In a situation where ideas are readily available, the only winning game is to remove the credibility from your opponent. It's a logical fallacy, but things like discrediting witnesses has been done for decades.

So convincing your followers that your "opponents" are racist, communist, etc is apparently proving to be the best way to win in a connected society. I say that because that's what the winners on both ends are engaging in, and are winning.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#43

Post by hannasanarion »

platz wrote: post #13
someguydave wrote: post #9

If we assume that voters are unable to deal with misinformation then we have already given up on democracy. The next logical step is to decide how to blunt the will of the misinformed voter.

Depends on what you mean by democracy. Suppose you get 100% voter participation through free and fair elections. Are you still sure that fails the definition of democracy? How hard is it to make that case? What if the voters choose an outcome you just don't happen to like? Is that all of a sudden undemocratic?

And if the majority of those voters are opposed to democracy itself, and vote for candidates who promise to take away votes from people they don't like, or establish a theocracy? "America isn't and shouldn't be a democracy" is a common Republican talking point. This has happened in Poland and Hungary and its darn close to happening in the United States.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#44

Post by chiefalchemist »

> Congress should update its laws regarding political advertisers, and social media users need to “adjust to a media environment in which several dozen gatekeepers no longer control what is newsworthy.”

What is happening as been happening all along, for years. The now difference is who is doing the influencing; for what ends; and yes the how has changed but that's not really what's causing the friction.

For Stamos to suggest more people need to think for themselves, that more need to question authority more, sounds naive, at best. That is the last thing the powers that be will allow. They're fine with misinformation, they just want to sure it's their's and no one elses.

The irony is this latest "scandle" will ultimately be solved with less individual free thought, not more. It will be a psychological / emotional / intellectual nanny state. No human neuro activity too small to micro manage.

Yeah, it sounds extreme. But so would The Patriot Act pre 9-11. So would Ed Snowden before we knew about Ed Snowden. Both of these were met with barely a shrug of the shoulders. There's nothing to be fixed from Congress' pov everything is as it should be. It just needs a slight bit of adjusting.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#45

Post by platz »

hannasanarion wrote: post #43
platz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you mean by democracy. Suppose you get 100% voter participation through free and fair elections. Are you still sure that fails the definition of democracy? How hard is it to make that case? What if the voters choose an outcome you just don't happen to like? Is that all of a sudden undemocratic?

And if the majority of those voters are opposed to democracy itself, and vote for candidates who promise to take away votes from people they don't like, or establish a theocracy? "America isn't and shouldn't be a democracy" is a common Republican talking point. This has happened in Poland and Hungary and its darn close to happening in the United States.

Well that's quite a pickle to find oneself in, isn't it?

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#46

Post by basurihn »

mrleiter wrote: post #28

This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's not only the misinformation that is the problem, facebook itself is at the heart of the problem. They are one of many, albeit facebook being on the more influential side, platforms through which misinformation is spread. And of course education is the main han…

It certainly did connect less educated. This is a only part of the picture - the misinformation crisis also involves the miseducated.

The quality of our collegiate has been much displaced by the rise of the true-believing college administrator with authority to suppress unorthodox curriculum and research.

Facebook ALSO gives this cancer a platform.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#47

Post by 0x445442 »

ThomPete wrote: post #8
qaq wrote: post #3

It's hard to come up with good policy around this outside of educating people.

Being educated does not shield you from misinformation, unfortunately. I fact I wouldn't be surprised that the well educated is part of the problem when they get into politics because they abstract things and start to think too much in statistics and lose a feeling for what it means to be most people in this world. The end up creating their own misinformation filter. The current political climate has no shortage of w…

Yes this and Joeri’s post are on point. Unless you’re in the realm of mathematics or the physical sciences the more the education the stronger the disputes over “facts”.

It’s hubris to think any group can be the objective gatekeeper of truth unless they’re just reporting demonstrable facts like ball scores or weather.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#48

Post by chiefalchemist »

ourmandave wrote: post #39

“Congress needs to codify standards around political advertising,” he writes, saying that existing laws are decades out of date and don’t cover the types of platforms that exist today. Here's an article of all the platforms political ad policies (from June 2018) for advertisers. https://marketingland.com/the-big-list-of-political-ad-polic... Most ad policies have been updated to stop foreign paid political ads. And t…

> "But paid ads are one thing. Fake accounts posting lies and mis-information are another."

IDK. I just sat through 4 - 6 weeks of political ads (here in central NJ) and it was difficult to tell fact from fiction. To say nothing of the fact most did not disclose even their declared party. As for the super PAC ads. Those were more twisted informion with the source being far from transparent - not even a URL.

Point being. Same lies as always. Same misinfo as always. None of it done by Russians.

Let's not be naive. The system is optimized for bad info from bad actors. The difference is, the actors are not our (so called) representatives.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#49

Post by swsieber »

Fake news is a symtpom, not a cause. To fight fake news, we'd have to go to the sources (note: this is mostly off the top of my head):

* Fight partisanship/polarization. Not sure how to do this. But taking a big step back and trying to discuss things without labels would be a good start. And who knows... maybe a different voting system to encourage more parties to exist? There's a lot to do here.

* Fight corruption. The U.S. system is corrupt. Corrupt leaders thrive on partisanship.

* Stop emotionally framing things. An article frames something with lots of emotion? I'd be wary that they're telling you how to feel so you don't worry about what they're trying to achieve (what to think, or just views for money)

* Reject online advertising. Online advertising equates views with money. The more inflammatory something is, the more money it brings in. Be equally wary of any micro-transactional news / article service.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#50

Post by chrisseaton »

mrleiter wrote: post #28

This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's not only the misinformation that is the problem, facebook itself is at the heart of the problem. They are one of many, albeit facebook being on the more influential side, platforms through which misinformation is spread. And of course education is the main han…

Is ‘less educated’ code for people with views different to yours?
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