How about a resident discount? A reverse tax - you can keep prices high, but locals with a resident ID get a discount - it could be subsidized by the local government.
How cities can fix tourism hell
41–50 of 113 posts
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#42At risk of being labeled a "neoliberal idealist," why isn't the answer here simply taxing tourists more? Pigovian taxes have been a thing for fifty years, yet they are still seldom used. It seems like such an obvious solution to me that the fact it's not used more often (ex: towns banning airbnb vs taxing it) suggests to me that I'm missing something obvious.
Gross. Gross gross gross. Tourists already get taxed. Hotel taxes are huge. It sucks. Traveling for conferences to meet new people and learn new things is soooo expensive and tourist taxes are a big part of why. Tourist taxes are how you destroy diversity and trap people into the tiny bubble in which they were born. We should be striving for the opposite.
Who is avoiding travel because of tourist taxes? The relative cost of pre-tax airfare, lodging, etc. is exceptionally high relative to the typical hotel tax, for example. When did you last decide not to attend a conference because the destination’s tourist taxes were prohibitively high?
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gross. Gross gross gross. Tourists already get taxed. Hotel taxes are huge. It sucks. Traveling for conferences to meet new people and learn new things is soooo expensive and tourist taxes are a big part of why. Tourist taxes are how you destroy diversity and trap people into the tiny bubble in which they were born. We should be striving for the opposite.
Who is avoiding travel because of tourist taxes? The relative cost of pre-tax airfare, lodging, etc. is exceptionally high relative to the typical hotel tax, for example. When did you last decide not to attend a conference because the destination’s tourist taxes were prohibitively high?
Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone.
How much would a trip's cost be reduced with the elimination of tourist taxes? Totally depends. It's not the biggest cost. But it ain't zero either. They call it nickel-and-dime for a reason.
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
A good solution here seems to be - don't organise conferences in places which are full of tourists already. You want to meet new people and learn? Great - book a country hotel and transport from the airport, or maybe a place in some town with reasonable plane connections. You want to also see the city? You're a tourist.
I could not possibly disagree more. Conferences are almost always a split of local and non-local attendees. Forcing conferences to be exclusively non-local attendees makes zero sense. It would be even more expensive, in absolute dollars and environmental cost, to have everyone travel to the middle of Nebraska. I know it's not your intent, but your stance here reeks of elistism, xenophobia, and othering. Extrapolating…
It's funny, because I've actually been contemplating the total costs of having conferences in areas outside the SF bay, and it's probably net cheaper to have people fly to the middle of nowhere AND rent a hotel PLUS conference space, than it is to simply rent the conference space in SF.
Cost of living has grown so large that it's almost cheaper to fly into SFO every day from a regional airport instead of renting a hotel room.
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is avoiding travel because of tourist taxes? The relative cost of pre-tax airfare, lodging, etc. is exceptionally high relative to the typical hotel tax, for example. When did you last decide not to attend a conference because the destination’s tourist taxes were prohibitively high?
Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone. How much would a trip's cost be reduced with the elimination of tourist taxes? Totally depends. It's not the biggest cost. But it ain't zero either. They call it nickel-and-dime for a reason.
>Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone.
Nice dodge there, Neo
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's what I thought. Unfortunately that also affects locals, which diminishes the benefit.
Locals who stay at hotels? Usually these taxes are only on short term accommodations like hotels and Airbnb
They're also usually limited by duration. So it'll be x euro a night for the first 7 nights, with a max of Y per stay
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is avoiding travel because of tourist taxes? The relative cost of pre-tax airfare, lodging, etc. is exceptionally high relative to the typical hotel tax, for example. When did you last decide not to attend a conference because the destination’s tourist taxes were prohibitively high?
Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone. How much would a trip's cost be reduced with the elimination of tourist taxes? Totally depends. It's not the biggest cost. But it ain't zero either. They call it nickel-and-dime for a reason.
I very clearly did not ask who avoids travel because of total costs.
The question is in what case does somebody avoid booking a trip that they otherwise would’ve taken because they just can’t stomach the tourist taxes once they’re already paying hundreds for flights and lodging?
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#48At risk of being labeled a "neoliberal idealist," why isn't the answer here simply taxing tourists more? Pigovian taxes have been a thing for fifty years, yet they are still seldom used. It seems like such an obvious solution to me that the fact it's not used more often (ex: towns banning airbnb vs taxing it) suggests to me that I'm missing something obvious.
Generally speaking, "obvious" and very simple solutions of that sort to any kind of social problem tend to come with a raft load of unexpected and unintended consequences that can be difficult to prove and can be a net negative.
I'm keenly interested in better understanding the problem space. I am very leery of such "obvious" answers.
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone. How much would a trip's cost be reduced with the elimination of tourist taxes? Totally depends. It's not the biggest cost. But it ain't zero either. They call it nickel-and-dime for a reason.
I very clearly did not ask who avoids travel because of total costs. The question is in what case does somebody avoid booking a trip that they otherwise would’ve taken because they just can’t stomach the tourist taxes once they’re already paying hundreds for flights and lodging?
Most people don't even know how much they're paying in tourist taxes. I certainly don't. It's a hard-to-see line item on lodging, attractions, event space, etc.
What's the total cost? I don't know. Probably more than 1 percent and less than 5? How many more people would travel if costs were reduced by 5 percent? More than zero, less than a lot.
I was responding to a post arguing for MORE tourist taxes. I think we should we have less.
Re: How cities can fix tourism hell
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is avoiding travel because of tourist taxes? The relative cost of pre-tax airfare, lodging, etc. is exceptionally high relative to the typical hotel tax, for example. When did you last decide not to attend a conference because the destination’s tourist taxes were prohibitively high?
Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone. How much would a trip's cost be reduced with the elimination of tourist taxes? Totally depends. It's not the biggest cost. But it ain't zero either. They call it nickel-and-dime for a reason.
> Who is avoiding travel because of costs? Almost everyone
This is patently untrue. NYC had just shy of 63million visitors in 2017, and is one of the most expensive places on Earth.
Edinburgh (where I live) has about 480,000 people, and we get about 2 million visitors in the month of August. Accommodation is full, and prices are 2 or 3 times what they normally are for the entire month, and yet the city is full. A tourist tax of 1.50 a night is not going to deter anyone from visiting Edinburgh when the bus from the airport is 5 times that, or a night in a hotel is 20 times that.