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Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

reuters.com

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Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#91

Post by zhte415 »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #56
rorykoehler wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Malay? Explain please

Malays can be denied permanent residency permits even if they are married to a Singaporean citizen. My ex is Singaporean and I (white American) was denied work permit, so I researched it intently. We were considering marriage until we saw the thousands of Malays who were unsuccessful despite marriage. Really hidden and heartbreaking. And that's just one example of Han Chinese racism

Aren't most Singaporean Chinese Hokkien and Hakka, not Han?

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#92

Post by philliphaydon »

Kaveren wrote: post #70
philliphaydon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I’m not sure where I stated I was for total control over what people do.

If you're in favor of Singapore's draconian restrictions on free speech and criminal justice system among other issues combined with blanket public surveillance, you're approaching "total control".

Where did I say any of that? Because it’s GOOD that drugs are banned? If that’s what qualifies as total control in your world then you live in a pretty small narrow world.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#93

Post by philliphaydon »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #77
philliphaydon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh hell yes!

Maybe your government can work out some deal where NK gets you and they get some North Korean who doesn't want to live in NK.

Lol. I live in Singapore. But my statement still stands. I would pick any country in Asia over a country in the west. I like Swedish people but the country isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, it’s not somewhere I would want to live.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#94

Post by iamnothere »

zabana wrote: post #78
sveme wrote: post #18

Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that. There might be a race between the recognition software and the circumvention technology, but a dedicated individual will always be able to avoid that. Normal people without any criminal, terrorist or activist intentions will be victims of this massive surveill…

Genuine question, what is a terrorist ? It seems to be a very fluid definition these days. Anybody can be deemed a terrorist by any establishment. Also, this kind of thinking reinforces the whole "Well, I don't mind being watched by government agencies because I have nothing to hide" reaction, and it's quite frankly worriying. I'm open to discuss this further though

2000 definition: someone who blows things up for political reasons.

2018 definition: someone who makes angry posts on social media.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but it's headed in that direction. If you want to see something truly worrying, look up the handful of idiots trying to promote the notion of "stochastic terrorism". The gist is that non-illegal statements which somehow get interpreted by lone nuts as incitement to violence should be categorized as a form of terrorism. Basically, they're hoping to criminalize angry rhetoric that stops well short of calls to violence. The good news is that they've been flogging this idea for a long time (pre-2016) and it still isn't really gaining ground.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#95

Post by AmericanChopper »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #16
AmericanChopper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should a European citizen visit Singapore, would this be GDPR compliant? I’m sure Singapore doesn’t care. The truth about Singapore is that it pretty much is a police state, which has pretty extensive restrictions on individual freedoms. But... they do actually deliver on the supposed benefits of organising a society in that manner. Singapore is safe, clean and orderly. I wouldn’t say that’s the best way to run a co…

And yet crime still does occur, and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay. I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper.

>yet crime still does occur

Of course it does. 0% crime rate is impossible. The point is that Singapore is measurably far safer than most other places in the world.

>And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay.

There’s plenty of reasons to criticise Singapore, but you don’t seem to be familiar with them. If you want to have a lifestyle where you smoke weed, then Singapore is certainly not the right place to live. But being gay or Malay is not a threat to your freedom, life, career or residency.

Also, if you’re looking for cheap living, then Singapore’s a terrible place to start. It’s very expensive to live there, but I don’t see how that has anything to do with their laws or how they enforce them.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#96

Post by Kaveren »

philliphaydon wrote: post #92
Kaveren wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in favor of Singapore's draconian restrictions on free speech and criminal justice system among other issues combined with blanket public surveillance, you're approaching "total control".

Where did I say any of that? Because it’s GOOD that drugs are banned? If that’s what qualifies as total control in your world then you live in a pretty small narrow world.

The contexts of my reply were about your reply to the other poster's comment. You seemed dismissive of legitimate points brought up about the inability to make many choices freely, as if it were something you didn't care about.

You also said in the reply that you'd prefer to live in any Asian country before any Western country.

I think my interpretation was fair given the context.

It wasn't about the legality of drugs, though the draconian criminal justice system surrounding it was more of my point.

Edit: Removed sentence fragment I forgot to delete.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#97

Post by philliphaydon »

Kaveren wrote: post #96
philliphaydon wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I say any of that? Because it’s GOOD that drugs are banned? If that’s what qualifies as total control in your world then you live in a pretty small narrow world.

The contexts of my reply were about your reply to the other poster's comment. You seemed dismissive of legitimate points brought up about the inability to make many choices freely, as if it were something you didn't care about. You also said in the reply that you'd prefer to live in any Asian country before any Western country. I think my interpretation was fair given the context. It wasn't about the legality of drug…

Asia has a Long way to go in regards to things like gay marriage. So does the western world. My point is there are many openly gay people in Singapore. While the law is against gay/anal sex (if I remember correctly anal sex is against the law too) and gay marriage is not allowed. It doesn’t mean people are forbidden to be gay in Singapore.

I’m against drugs outright. Weed included. The laws are strict in Asia. Not just singapore. However singapore has stated that if the overwhelming scientific conclusion is that weed is ok. Then they are open for allowing it in Singapore for Medical purposes. However since there is still a lot of conflicting science (despite there being positive benefits to weed) singapore wants it to remain banned. Alcohol consumption is only a real issue with foreigners in Singapore. It’s taxed so high here no one drinks other than foreigners.

(About to board a plane so have to stop)

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#98

Post by rorykoehler »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #87
rorykoehler wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but that isn't remotely the experience I have witnessed. Singapore is about hard cash. Nothing else comes into consideration.

I mean, why should hard cash have anything to do with the right to live and work in Singapore? The US isn't the most awesome country in the world but marrying a foreigner at least conveys them basic rights like residency and work permit. I mean, residency! What is a marriage without residency?

That's the way they run Singapore. Marrying a local gives you extra weight but money comes first. It's their fizz buzz. I'm not sure why you mention what the US does? Its irrelevant. Singapore is a full blown corporatist state. The rules and way they do things reflect that.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#99

Post by anoncoward111 »

zhte415 wrote: post #91
anoncoward111 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malays can be denied permanent residency permits even if they are married to a Singaporean citizen. My ex is Singaporean and I (white American) was denied work permit, so I researched it intently. We were considering marriage until we saw the thousands of Malays who were unsuccessful despite marriage. Really hidden and heartbreaking. And that's just one example of Han Chinese racism

Aren't most Singaporean Chinese Hokkien and Hakka, not Han?

Sorry, you are totally right! I was actually meaning to imply that they are heavily influenced by the People's Republic of China, or at least, "Pan-Chinese" identity or "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity.

EDIT: upon consulting Wikipedia, it would appear that Hakka is a subset of Han, and that Singaporeans are considered Han despite ancestral migrations. It's a lot like ethnic Irish living in Ireland vs ethnic Irish living in America

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#100

Post by anoncoward111 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #98
anoncoward111 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, why should hard cash have anything to do with the right to live and work in Singapore? The US isn't the most awesome country in the world but marrying a foreigner at least conveys them basic rights like residency and work permit. I mean, residency! What is a marriage without residency?

That's the way they run Singapore. Marrying a local gives you extra weight but money comes first. It's their fizz buzz. I'm not sure why you mention what the US does? Its irrelevant. Singapore is a full blown corporatist state. The rules and way they do things reflect that.

I agree that that is definitely how they run Singapore, corporatism combined with "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity.

When I think of what the USA does in terms of preventing migration, I say to myself, "wow, it probably can't be much worse than this". But then I think of Singapore, and realize I'm wrong-- wow, it can be worse than this!

At least in the USA and indeed many countries all over the world, marriage = right to reside. But not in Singapore.

If you are Malay, then the government sees you as a threat to the "delicate harmonious balance of races" in Singapore, and they will do a lot to prevent you from permanently residing and working.

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