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Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

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Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#301

Post by xorcist »

jarcane wrote: post #280
coned88 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. I run linux on an IBM Thinkpad T40 for the better part of a decade.Then I moved to a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon which also runs Ubuntu fine. IN fact installing linux takes at most 20 min and I am done. Drivers and everything are all automatic. Windows on the other hand can take hours to install from scratch. God forbid you need a service pack or to find a driver that's not easily found anymore. Peo…

That's because it's a Thinkpad. The T-series had been the Red Hat company issue laptop for years, and has had boatloads of internal support as a result. You're right in that a Thinkpad will mostly work out of the box long as you don't want that Nvidia GPU to work, but everyone else? Good luck. My XPS 15 was a lost cause, losing three quarters of it's battery life under Linux and with countless video problems. And on…

That XPS laptop of yours probably isn't great with OS X either. Yet nobody blames Apple for that.

It's a bit of a double standard. If you want a pain free workhorse, go with something that's supported out of the box. Don't buy that Nvidia GPU if you intend to use it for a Linux desktop, where it is unlikely to be of much use anyway (unless you are one of those CAD people in which case you use what your vendor supports).

Personally I settled for Thinkpads many years ago (the T- and X-series, not non-Thinkpads that Lenovo tries to peddle under that brand name) and they haven't given me any trouble yet. Seeing how Windows laptops sometimes doesn't wake from sleep properly makes me suspect that that's not much better tested either. If it boots, ship it.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#302

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

coned88 wrote: post #210
driverdan wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't tried running it on a laptop then.

I don't understand. I run linux on an IBM Thinkpad T40 for the better part of a decade.Then I moved to a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon which also runs Ubuntu fine. IN fact installing linux takes at most 20 min and I am done. Drivers and everything are all automatic. Windows on the other hand can take hours to install from scratch. God forbid you need a service pack or to find a driver that's not easily found anymore. Peo…

Has Linux changed a lot? Last I tried installing it years ago, I had to find each driver individually and had to get some stubborn ones working. At the time I thought to myself - no average Joe would figure this out, no wonder nobody uses Linux (and by nobody I meant non-devs)

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#303

Post by thawkins »

rcarmo wrote: post #269

I don’t get the hate, really. It’s the only distro I’ve used in the past few years with a “nice enough” desktop where my Mac instincts translate across and where I can use anything packaged for Ubuntu with zero hassles. I’ve been running it on a low-end Chromebook for a long while now, and upgraded from 0.4.1 to 5.0 via the CLI (not recommended, but feasible if you know what you’re doing), and other than the ultra-ni…

mail on 5.0 is just plain broken when used with gmail. refuses to log in.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#304

Post by nobody271 »

lewiscollard wrote: post #229
nobody271 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Linux will e... okay, probably ever, be a replacement for Windows or MacOS. Linux is Linux no matter how you dress it up. The first time a non-crazy person has to decompress and unpack a .tar.gz to install a program that usually comes in a .msi they're done. Forget about the fact that they'll be running down dependencies and the programs themselves don't usually work as good. What is the benefit they ge…

> The first time a non-crazy person has to decompress and unpack a .tar.gz to install a program that usually comes in a .msi they're done. Can we put this myth to bed yet? I use Linux full-time at home and on my laptop and I can't remember the last time I had to do this. Hey, I only see a command line because I can do stuff much faster there, not because I need to (I live in a command line on my Mac at work, too).

Between installing software, editing configuration files as sudo in vim, partitioning drives, mounting drives, copying files to a directory where you need sudo, etc. any user on a Linux system will spend plenty of time at the command line.

We should do a test and see if it really is a "myth". Get 10 normal users to install 10 programs not already in the repositories and see how well that goes. Just the other day I had to unzip a .tar.xz from the command line.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#305

Post by Lio »

jhasse wrote: post #299
Lio wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s what attracts me to Gnome too. The keyboard shortcuts are enough for me to be productive without being fully tile based. If I could just get terminal shortcuts like ctrl-w for delete word or Ctrl-m for return to work in Firefox text fields it would be perfect for me.

Ctrl+Backspace is delete word.

I’m aware of that but I don’t really like it. I’d much prefer the shorter movement of Ctrl-w.

It puts less stress on my right wrist, which suffers RSI a bit and is consistent with terminals on every (unix-like) OS.

On macOS I get this behaviour via Karabiner Elements; on Gnome I mostly get it via Tweaks. Except in Firefox, as mentioned, where I put up with ctrl-backspace and curse.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#306

Post by jenscow »

thekelvinliu wrote: post #287
black-tea wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a trained musician but I'm not going to complain when my plumber doesn't quite sing in tune. It just doesn't matter. I have a pretty well-trained eye for typography too, but when the choice is between systems that are free, fast, privacy-respecting, and functional and systems that are pretty but completely out of my control I'm never going to choose the latter. I'm not sure what posts like yours are trying to ach…

i agree with you about the plumber. it doesn't matter. but imo that example is not really an analogous situation. what if your instrument was always out of tune? or if a member of your ensemble couldn't keep time? i bet that would prevent you from making a record or being productive otherwise as a musician. as a full time developer and someone who does notice these little things, i care a lot about good design and vi…

Linux desktop is more like an unpolished trumpet, with a few dents. After a small amount of tuning, it plays the perfect note every time. You can take it apart, and adjust the internals. If you wish, you can turn it into any other type of instrument.

Then you have macOS, perfectly round, so shiny you can see your face, including the insides... the nicest looking trumpet money can buy. But it comes in one piece, only the shop can re-tune it, and has only one button, and sounds exactly the same as the other apple trumpets.

And Windows... average looking a trumpet, which everyone recognises, operated like a kazoo. Sometimes it plays the wrong note, or stop during a performance. You can retune it, but it will de-tune itself randomly. Sometimes it will recommend the shop's other instruments, and report back to the shop what you've been playing. But the shop now wants to rent studios, instead.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#307

Post by Lio »

chungy wrote: post #295
Lio wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s what attracts me to Gnome too. The keyboard shortcuts are enough for me to be productive without being fully tile based. If I could just get terminal shortcuts like ctrl-w for delete word or Ctrl-m for return to work in Firefox text fields it would be perfect for me.

Open Tweaks, "Keyboard & Mouse" tab, enable Emacs Input. Now you get Ctrl-W in text fields and other shortcuts from Emacs. Doesn't quite work in Firefox though, which has a lot of conflicting shortcuts.

I have done exactly that... except it doesn’t work in Firefox, as you mentioned. There Ctrl-w always closes tabs, except in pinned tabs when it jumps to another tab without closing.

It does work as expected in Chrom(e|ium) and most other apps. In Chrome you can still close tabs with ctrl-w, you just have tab out of a text box first.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#308

Post by 738472527784 »

jammygit wrote: post #200
quantummkv wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using the Kde desktop (Kubuntu) for about 6 months now after switching from Windows 10 for Ruby development. The UI is damn good. Way more polished and consistent than what passes for the three way mess that the Windows 10 UI is these days. Straight out of the box you get a polished, Windows 7 type layout, complete with a start menu better than Windows, consistent fonts and smooth animations. And unlike eve…

Imho, gnome is quite nice. I think I'm in the minority maybe but I would be pretty sad if gnome went away one day (or had another memory leak/slowdown issue)

I am with you. I actually love gnome a little bit. To be fair, changed theme and two extension are essential for me. It's so awesome once you got accustomed to the shortcuts and UI idea. Typing everywhere, I can pretty much never leave the keyboard if I want to, BUT if I am lazy I can also never use the keyboard. Honestly there are so many good ideas there, I wish they would rework the core and default aesthetics, to achieve real greatness.

KDE on the other hand is somewhat fine, if you don't touch anything. Customizing opens hell. UI Inconsistencies, weird bugs, stuff drawn off screen, almost guaranteed... Horrible IMO.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#309

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

virtualritz wrote: post #224
andrepd wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you comparing Elementary OS with a version of Linux Mint that's at least 5 years old? Especially when they had such a big design shift in the last year or two. Up-to-date screenshot (still with the "old" theme Mint-X, but actually Mint-Y (based on arc) is the default as of the latest version): https://linuxmint.com/pictures/screenshots/serena/gallery/5.... The choice isn't between ugly and Elementary. It's a…

It's almost as bad 5 years later then. - icons on task bar too low - icons on task bar vertically not aligned - task icons different size than pinned icons on task bar - task text vertically aligned too high - icons stylistically not matched - system icons unreadable (badly designed, all look the same, don't convey purpose adequately) - task bar icons on right are vertically all over the place - task bar mini icons s…

I am surprised that this is the current state of UI, holy shit. Does any techie care about their UI or “good enough” is where the care ends? You couldn’t pay me to look at that all day.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#310

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

black-tea wrote: post #275
zapzupnz wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree. The design is fine, functionally, but there's a certain harmony missing from it and most Linux desktops (even elementaryOS') that makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Mind you, I say that as a macOS user (although I did run Linux full-time for a good six years in a past life), and I'm sure many a Linux user will call the macOS interface toy-like to their eyes. Even thoug…

> makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Fascinating. I consider systems like Android, Windoze and MacOS to be like toys for the same reason: superficially beautiful, but not actually a good tool for work.

Millions would disagree with you.
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