The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange • Hacker News Board

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#561

Post by foldr » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 10:25 AM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #510

foldr wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Assange should be prosecuted for appearing on Russian state TV. (Does anyone?) While it may be technically true to say that he "sold the rights" to Russia Today, that's arguably a little misleading, as the show first aired on RT, and RT had exclusive initial rights to it.

>I don't think Assange should be prosecuted for appearing on Russian state TV. (Does anyone? People use his television show to claim he's a paid operative of Russia. The same narrative can be made of Ventura, and any reason Assange should be prosecuted but not Ventura seems sketchy. >While it may be technically true to say that he "sold the rights" to Russia Today, that's arguably a little misleading, as the show fir…

No-one is suggesting that Assange should be prosecuted for making a TV show, so I don't see what you're getting at with the Ventura comparison.

What you can't do is claim that it's somehow normal for someone who claims to be anti-authoritarian to appear on Russian state TV and take Kremlin money. The TV show is one of many examples of unusually close connections between Assange and the Russian state:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wik...

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#562

Post by marcus_holmes » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 11:26 AM UTC

HappySweeney wrote: post #518

marcus_holmes wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I'm seeing opportunity here... who wants a Bubble Buddy?... someone from a diagrammatically opposite bubble from you, so you can see how the other half think

I actually do this with friends. It rarely goes well.

do tell... what happens? Arguments? Fisticuffs?

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#563

Post by marcus_holmes » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 11:29 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #549

marcus_holmes wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I don't really understand how someone dedicated to upsetting the authorities got painted as a tool of right-wing US politics. Or maybe my left-leaning echo chamber is portraying him as that, and the alt-right bubble sees him as a Russian agent? It'd be interesting to compare notes... is there a service for matching up people in different bubbles so we can compare facts?

It is a legitimately confusing bit of partisan allegiance shifting in my estimate. Because Hillary lost and Trump has been acting like an incredibly obvious puppet even by his standards of 'gets along fine with despots while hating and being hated by every other democratically elected ally'. Given the allegations of Hillary Clinton 'joking' about drone striking him assuming a grudge is reasonable. Really I have the f…

I've been living in Cambodia for a while earlier this year, and seeing the fucking mess they made of the place there... yeah... I'd believe anything of them

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#564

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 3:44 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #459

dragonwriter wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If true, this suggests that previous articles about assange being 'practically free to go', and 'just staying in the embassy for attention' were misinformed. But those were always false even considering only the overt facts, and without the US issuing an extradition request (which there is still no indication it has, though there is an administrative error that seems to indicate that there is a sealed indictment);…

The Swedish government has dropped their charges, so they no longer apply. Now though he’s wanted by British police for avoiding arrest, which is a different felony. That puts him under the control of the UK government, which are very likely to agree to any extradition requests the US may send.

Eh, maybe they'd extradite, but their good faith towards the US has been rather strained lately so I wouldn't look at it as a certainty.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#565

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 3:51 PM UTC

matchagaucho wrote: post #452

londons_explore wrote: post #14

If true, this suggests that previous articles about assange being 'practically free to go', and 'just staying in the embassy for attention' were misinformed.

I like to imagine that random Bobbies patrol the embassy, in the off chance he steps outside.

I wonder if he ever just hops back and forth on the doorstep to mess with them. I mean, he's got to get bored.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#566

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 3:52 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #462

matt4077 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get what the argument is supposed to be. Possibly that the charges should be dropped because so much time has passed. Because there is just no logical reason why an accused should have the option of getting all charges dropped because somehow being prosecuted for them violates his rights? The analogy with shooting someone is obviously different, in that shooting someone tends to be a violation of their…

What charges? Uncovering massive war-crimes committed by the US? (And how many have been charged as the result of those?) Are you saying it’s ok to let people off the hook for war-crimes, but reporting them should put you in prison? What kind of society would that be? Certainly not one I would want to live in.

Yeah i never quite understood the charges either, but more because he works for an organization that isn't subject to the US jurisdiction.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#567

Post by resters » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #548

resters wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many. I should really document my findings in some sort of analysis. I've pointed this out to some friends who have payed closer attention and now agree with me after observing it for the last year or so themselves and comparing articles on the same topic between the WaPo and other sources. I personally am strongly anti-Trump but also broadly dislike both major parties, so citing a WaPo article that is unfa…

Objective journalism died with the subscription-based business model. Instead of optimizing for long-term reader trust, media has to get maximum eyeballs. This has always been a problem (TV news was making the shift long before print media) but it's only gotten worse. It became impossible to ignore in 2016, but it was building before that. I hear that the WSJ is still fairly reliable (if you ignore the opinion column…

What's so strange is the way that humans want their news to be less true for some emotional reason.

I really love Eliezer Yudkowsky's concept of least convenient possible worlds as a heuristic for evaluating the sorts of truth claims made or implied by politicians (and often echoed by journalists).

We are drawn to belief systems that make hard decisions easy, but what if some of the assumptions we take for granted are less clear cut. So the exercise is to imagine the least convenient world, one in which a key idea or conviction we lean on for other aspects of our belief system is completely incorrect.

In my view we should not expect journalistic work to strengthen existing convictions but to challenge them and add empathy and nuance to our views of the world.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#568

Post by resters » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #558

resters wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recommend wasting the time to do it. I have already done the experiment twice and the way it works is that some topics/stories on HN are under careful scrutiny for unwanted ideas. I'm not talking about prejudice or other backward ideas, but simply ideas that challenge the dominant world view that I'd describe as Silicon Valley Establishment Democratic Party Loyalist . There was a point during the 2016 campaig…

Ok thanks for responding. Do you have evidence for what you said? Like links to comments or....well, I don't know what. I suppose there isn't any proof, or you would've mentioned it by now.

I don't want to link to the comments because the comments themselves aren't the evidence. After participating in a few threads where I politely argued some ideas that were unwanted, my account was shadow banned. I didn't realize it for a while actually.

Discovering that the mods read my comments and somehow thought the account needed to be banned was pretty insulting to me. I really appreciate HN and the broader YC community and so being singled out that way for making polite and respectful arguments was (I think) really rude and inappropriate on the part of the mods.

When I emailed the mods to discuss, the excuse was that there was a "flame war". In my opinion, respectful discussion is productive even if both parties talk past each other a bit for a while until something closer to a consensus is achieved.

We are at an important time in the history of the US and I think it is profoundly irresponsible of the HN mods to try to ban any sort of political discussion from HN.

Over the years I've learned a great deal from HN, most of it technical but occasionally have gotten some valuable political insights as well. Also, occasionally reading a political interpretation from someone whose technical views I respect can be really mind expanding.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#569

Post by boomboomsubban » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #561

boomboomsubban wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think Assange should be prosecuted for appearing on Russian state TV. (Does anyone? People use his television show to claim he's a paid operative of Russia. The same narrative can be made of Ventura, and any reason Assange should be prosecuted but not Ventura seems sketchy. >While it may be technically true to say that he "sold the rights" to Russia Today, that's arguably a little misleading, as the show fir…

No-one is suggesting that Assange should be prosecuted for making a TV show, so I don't see what you're getting at with the Ventura comparison. What you can't do is claim that it's somehow normal for someone who claims to be anti-authoritarian to appear on Russian state TV and take Kremlin money. The TV show is one of many examples of unusually close connections between Assange and the Russian state: https://www.vox.…

>What you can't do is claim that it's somehow normal for someone who claims to be anti-authoritarian to appear on Russian state TV and take Kremlin money.

First, this also describes Ventura.

Second, claiming to be anti-authoritarian while accepting help from a clearly authoritarian Kremlin describes the US in WWII.

None of those connections suggest he's coordinating with Russia, just that their interests sometimes align. I'm sure he'd take US money and appear on PBS too if given the opportunity.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#570

Post by throw2016 » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

Let's leave all the war criminals from Iraq so we have repeats in Libya and Syria. Let's forgot about the bankers and fraud. Let's not do anything about the NSA and liars like Clapper. Let's instead get Assange. This makes a lot of sense, but only if you are a pretend democracy.

That should read the US regime is preparing to 'persecute' Julian Assange and should be a reality check for anyone remotely concerned about democracy, free press and dissent.