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International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

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Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#241

Post by devindotcom »

blhack wrote: post #232
kibwen wrote: post #188

See, the US wasn't being stubborn in not adopting metric, it was just waiting patiently for it to progress from beta to 1.0. :) (Fun fact: all the US customary units have been officially defined in terms of their metric counterparts since 1893: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pml/wmd/m... )

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

I hadn't thought of some of these advantages. Some are subjective, but it's hard to deny the intuitive nature of others. I say bring back the span and the rod as well.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#242

Post by naikrovek »

combatentropy wrote: post #212
beloch wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to commend my American friends for their undying loyalty to the memory of the Empire. U.S. customary units are derived from units that helped the British conquer the world, but even the British themselves have shamelessly abandoned them for the units of a filthy, monarch-less republic. It's good to see that Americans still subconsciously yearn for the firm ruling hand of their rightful Queen. Note: Americans h…

It just doesn't have the same ring to it. "He won't move an inch," or "He won't move a centimeter." "She won't quit until she's six feet under," or "She won't quit until she's two meters under." "I'll go the whole nine yards," or "I'll go the whole nine meters." "You can see for miles and miles," or "You can see for kilometers and kilometers."

I need you to understand that those phrases are still used all the time in English speaking countries that have adopted the metric system.

Changing your scientific measuring system doesn't necessitate a change to your colloquialisms; commonly used phrases don't change.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#243

Post by analog31 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #192
kibwen wrote: post #188

See, the US wasn't being stubborn in not adopting metric, it was just waiting patiently for it to progress from beta to 1.0. :) (Fun fact: all the US customary units have been officially defined in terms of their metric counterparts since 1893: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pml/wmd/m... )

So it's fair to rib my American friends with the fact that Imperial is implemented using metric?

As of today, they are both implemented using fundamental constants. ;-)

But indeed, most people worldwide are surprised when you tell them that there is no standard inch or standard pound sitting in a vault somewhere. Most machines, and most design software, have a button that switches between US and metric, and the machine itself doesn't care. More and more new products in the US use metric fasteners unless it's for something where a standard applies to exactly one thing, such as spark plug thread. I have used my metric tools more than my US tools in the process of doing repairs around the house, on my car, and my bikes.

One fastener on my bike uses Whitworth threads.

For all intents and purposes, it has ceased to matter.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#244

Post by stass »

naikrovek wrote: post #238
blhack wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

You are definitely (and thankfully) not the norm. Imperial units are awful. They're more ... human, maybe, in that a foot is about one human foot long, and that an inch is about one human thumb width, and how 0F feels "pretty cold" and 100F feels "pretty hot", and to me the charm of imperial units begins and ends right there. Those are literally the only redeemable qualities about imperial units, and they have nothin…

What are the redeamable qualities of metric units?

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#245

Post by carljoseph »

gorn wrote: post #237

Recently I have been thinking about if any of our units makes sense in cosmic perspective. Let's take speed of light for example. It's approximately 300000 km/s. But then what is a second? It's 1/60 of a minute which is 1/60 of an hour which is 1/24 of a day(and so it goes) and all those numbers are arbitrary. A day doesn't make any sense outside our planet anyway, I doubt that there is another celestial body in the…

The definition of a second isn't based on the Earth's motion, but some natural phenomena like you recommended. "The second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom." [1]

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-does-one-arri...

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#246

Post by gnopgnip »

gorn wrote: post #237

Recently I have been thinking about if any of our units makes sense in cosmic perspective. Let's take speed of light for example. It's approximately 300000 km/s. But then what is a second? It's 1/60 of a minute which is 1/60 of an hour which is 1/24 of a day(and so it goes) and all those numbers are arbitrary. A day doesn't make any sense outside our planet anyway, I doubt that there is another celestial body in the…

"The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom."

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#247

Post by jimworm »

pfbtgom wrote: post #83

How would you use the new definition to calibrate instruments? My current understanding is that there is a lineage of artifacts calibrated against another artifact until one of those was calibrated against the one true artifact. So how would NIST or another certifying source say that my 1kg standard is 1kg +/- tolerance? Is it anyone with a kibble balance can now certify calibrations? How do you know your kibble bala…

The NIST explanation of Kibble balance calibration includes this:

> Everything on the right side of that equation can be determined to extraordinary precision: The current and voltage by using quantum-electrical effects that are measurable on laboratory instruments; the local gravitational field by using an ultra-sensitive, on-site device called an absolute gravimeter; and the velocity by tracking the coil's motion with laser interferometry, which operates at the scale of the wavelength of the laser light.

Current is measured in amperes, derived from the charge (in coulombs, defined from the charge of a proton) and time (in seconds, defined from the vibration of a Cs atom). Gravitational acceleration is measured in ms^-2, derived from length (in metres, defined from the distance travelled by light in a vacuum in a second) and time. Velocity is also derived from length and time.

With these new defined constants (including the Planck constant), all of the instruments could now be calibrated by observing natural phenomena and a whole lot of counting.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#248

Post by saagarjha »

stass wrote: post #244
naikrovek wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are definitely (and thankfully) not the norm. Imperial units are awful. They're more ... human, maybe, in that a foot is about one human foot long, and that an inch is about one human thumb width, and how 0F feels "pretty cold" and 100F feels "pretty hot", and to me the charm of imperial units begins and ends right there. Those are literally the only redeemable qualities about imperial units, and they have nothin…

What are the redeamable qualities of metric units?

It’s based on the decimal system, which we happen to use in our primary numerical system as well?

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#249

Post by grogers »

3pt14159 wrote: post #12

This is probably the dumbest thing I'll type on HN. In university I just gave up trying to understand why we even needed the Avogadro constant / mole as a fundamental constant. It still confuses me. Why have a difference between molar mass and mass? Why couldn't it just be "1" and everything else change around it?

The number of things in a mole is arbitrary. It's a dimensionless unit. However, since many things are already measured in moles in chemistry, there's no real reason to remove it. Dealing with numbers on a more practical macroscopic scale is probably more convenient than dealing with large powers of 10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(unit)#Criticism

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#250

Post by autokad »

blhack wrote: post #232
kibwen wrote: post #188

See, the US wasn't being stubborn in not adopting metric, it was just waiting patiently for it to progress from beta to 1.0. :) (Fun fact: all the US customary units have been officially defined in terms of their metric counterparts since 1893: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pml/wmd/m... )

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

I feel like imperial units are human units. they are units used on a human scale, where as metric are more 'computer'. example: a human really cant look at something and divide it by 10 very well, but 1/3, 1/2, 1/4, very easy to do. the sizes makes human sense, like a foot being about a human foot, etc.
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