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I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

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Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#241

Post by avar »

craftyguy wrote: post #155
stickfigure wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but it would invite a secondary market for these cards. The logistics of fabricating them would suck, and you have to look at an ID to judge if a card should offered anyway. Plus having special cards feels corporate, not homey. Looking at an ID for locals discount is pretty well trodden ground.

> but it would invite a secondary market for these cards There are already markets for fake IDs, so unless you're suggesting that small local restaurants purchase scanners to confirm the authenticity of each ID, it would be relatively easy to circumvent this check too. (Some states require IDs to be scanned for selling alcohol, but many, e.g. in Oregon, do not, and the only check is some employee looking at a card in…

Isn't the mere possession of a fake ID illegal where the restaurant was operating? Whereas buying a coupon from someone isn't.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#242

Post by bedhead »

tptacek wrote: post #135

It's hard to blame Kevin Alexander for this, because Steve Stanich played ball with the review, like most restaurants would. If he wanted to, he could have asked not to be featured in the list, and Alexander probably would have complied; otherwise, he could have done other things to make it clear to his customers that he wasn't interested in fulfilling the role the ranking carved out for him. We see this effect in Ch…

Au Cheval is easily the most overrated burger (and perhaps restaurant) in Chicago. Hey guess what, if you make a 12oz burger, put three slices of cheese on it, place it on a buttered roll, then put pork belly, a fried egg, and mayo on it, it will taste good. And it will also make you want to freakin die the moment you're done because you just consumed 25,000 calories. But people will wait literally 2.5 hours for this anyway because hey that's where Grant Achatz goes to eat burgers.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#243

Post by bedhead »

monksy wrote: post #165
tptacek wrote: post #135

It's hard to blame Kevin Alexander for this, because Steve Stanich played ball with the review, like most restaurants would. If he wanted to, he could have asked not to be featured in the list, and Alexander probably would have complied; otherwise, he could have done other things to make it clear to his customers that he wasn't interested in fulfilling the role the ranking carved out for him. We see this effect in Ch…

Right now I would say that Bad Apple is about the best burger place. Kumas stretched themselves too thin with expansion and ignoring service quality in their original restaurant.

Bad Apple has been the best burger in Chicago for awhile. Amen.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#244

Post by crazygringo »

tptacek wrote: post #189
mabbo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To the commenters saying Stanich should simply raise its prices: there's a price ceiling for that burger. It's not a fancy chef burger; If you have a five hour lineup for a burger, you need to raise your prices at least a little bit. You'll make more money overall, and your customers will be happy.

You can do that to a point, but if what you're serving is simply a well-executed diner burger, then, like I said, there's a ceiling. You can't charge $30 for that. Or, you can, but you'll create more problems than you'll solve. This guy ate at 330 different burger restaurants. He has a finely-tuned metric for what a good burger is (his #3 is also a neighborhood place he grew up with). He's set up to appreciate what S…

Exactly. There's a fine line between a reasonable price with a long line... and raising it where people say "they're price gouging, ugh!" and lose your customers forever because you're no longer someone with a passion for the best burger, you're a sellout for the money.

Supply and demand doesn't work as smoothly as you think. It's the same reason why huge TicketMaster fees exist -- so artists can sell tickets at a "fair" price (any higher would piss off fans) and TM takes the flak for all the "fees", many of which go to the artist/management in the end anyways. Or why shows sell out instead of raising prices -- people simply revolt at pricing they perceive as "unfair". And once they do, it's hard to get the good will back.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#245

Post by ryanwaggoner »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #95
jacquesm wrote: post #23

"Too much love will kill you, just as sure as none." It's an interesting reflection on the effect of the internet hordes that can be called up by a careless article or tweet. A similar thing happens to restaurants that receive the Michelin stars and to single individuals that end up being in more popular demand than can be sustained (this happens to some consultants). Not all of the typical defenses are available all…

> Besides that not being fair to your original customers. Speaking of not fair, I'm imagining a scenario where prices fluctuate by the hour or by the customer. Maybe it's not unfair, but just different.

Like, say...Uber?

Dynamic pricing is the right answer for this, but people don't like it and it's hard to execute technically.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#246

Post by jacquesm »

andybak wrote: post #54
jacquesm wrote: post #23

"Too much love will kill you, just as sure as none." It's an interesting reflection on the effect of the internet hordes that can be called up by a careless article or tweet. A similar thing happens to restaurants that receive the Michelin stars and to single individuals that end up being in more popular demand than can be sustained (this happens to some consultants). Not all of the typical defenses are available all…

> they devour that which they visit and leave it devastated. Not disagreeing but the "they" is "us". You're not in a traffic jam, you are the traffic jam.

I'd rather not go see the great barrier reef.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#247

Post by sergiotapia »

>“It was always delicious, but never really crowded,” he said. “But then it started appearing on all these national lists, and now, no matter the day, you’ve got to get there before 11am if you don’t want to wait two hours.”

Like Knaus Berry Farm here in Miami, which opens only for the season. They sell these cinammon rolls which I shit you not people line up for since 4am to get them.

I went one day at 10am thinking everybody is at work; nope - still full with a line curving out in the sunny sidewalk.

Their food is good but not "wait in the hot Miami sun for four hours" good.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#248

Post by Dylan16807 »

astrodust wrote: post #101
hnaccy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provide a locals only card that gives reduced pricing, could even have a locals only day once a week.

Ten minutes later a "locals only" card goes on eBay.

To who?

Someone that is only going to go there once or twice? Then it won't cause a problem.

Someone that isn't a local, but goes to the place over and over anyway? Consider them an honorary local.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#249

Post by ryanwaggoner »

scruple wrote: post #139
JPKab wrote: post #19

People are lemmings. Franklin's BBQ in Austin has hours long lines. It's very good brisket. The hill country of Texas is FILLED with equally good brisket joints that don't have lines. People who wait in line for 4 hours won't admit this. Cognitive dissonance kicks in, and Franklin's is unique and better than everyone else in their minds. Try telling a person that their Bose headphones are overpriced and overrated, an…

I've been to Sukiyabashi Jiro, in Tokyo, four times. The Ginza location twice and the Roppongi Hills location twice. Lunch and dinner service at both locations. These are Michelin 3 and 2 star restaurants, respectively, and it is actually quite challenging to get in to the Ginza location as a foreigner, especially the dinner service. I don't mean to say anything to discredit Jiro or his sons or their apprentices. The…

If it's just as good for cheaper, then why have you been 4 times? It doesn't sound like it's easier.

Re: I Found the Best Burger Place in America, Then I Killed It

#250

Post by tptacek »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #229
tptacek wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do that to a point, but if what you're serving is simply a well-executed diner burger, then, like I said, there's a ceiling. You can't charge $30 for that. Or, you can, but you'll create more problems than you'll solve. This guy ate at 330 different burger restaurants. He has a finely-tuned metric for what a good burger is (his #3 is also a neighborhood place he grew up with). He's set up to appreciate what S…

Of course there's a ceiling, but you're assuming the ceiling is based on the burger. It's not. It's based on the demand for the burger, and that demand is way, way higher than the supply, so the ceiling is higher than the current price. Pretty simple. And yes, you can only raise it to a certain point, but you only need to raise it to a certain point: that certain point is the ceiling . And you don't need to jump from…

This is a terrible term but I'll use it because it works here: the genre of burger we are talking about here is "cheap burger" (I mean that as a quality/experience descriptor, not price). It's a relatively thin, wide ground chuck patty on a good-but-standard bun; the only "interesting" ingredient they use is hamburger relish.

So, yeah I am explicitly saying that the price ceiling and the demand for the burger aren't as neatly related as it looks, because the substitutes for this particular burger are going to be very close to it in quality (it's possible that for something close to 50% of patrons, this burger will be perceived as "worse" than other cheap burgers they've had, because opinions vary).

If this was that Raoul's burger, where it's ground short rib and brisket with a triple cream brie and a cognac cream dipping sauce, I'd be right there with you. But Stanich is apparently just a cheap diner burger very well executed (in Alexander's estimation, but I have no reason to doubt him). If you charge $30 for that, people will pay (once), and then feel ripped off. For a little while. Then word will get out.

It probably is the best cheap diner burger in America! The dude did the research! I'm just saying, you probably can't charge $30 for a cheap burger, sustainably. You'll do OK in the short term, and then irreversibly harm the business.

Scaling out makes a lot more sense. He probably should franchise.

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