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The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

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Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#501

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You need to step up your game mister! Currently, the alt-right does not see him as a Russian agent, because Russia doesn't meddle in elections and stuff. That's just crazy talk propaganda. They are dangerous with some nuclear stuff so we have to build more nukes. But they are good in Syria and we need to either step away completely from that shit-show or give them a hand and fight on their side. It's complicated. The…

haha awesome. Good to hear the other side :) I'm wondering why the downvotes though? Do we not understand that we inhabit bubbles?

Yeah but people get upset when you point the fact out to them, sometimes.

Bubbles are what OTHER people inhabit, see. We're all special and unique free-thinkers immune to unconscious biases. Or something.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#503
post #43

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Again sarcasm as a way to convey a legitimate point is downvoted on HN so I'll translate: I would be surprised if he was prosecuted harshly given his important role in the election of the current president of the US. (Edit: to be clear, I personally dislike seeing all these jokes about russian agents re: the 2016 election. There was clearly meddling but its beginning to bother me that a vocal strain of vocal American…

> they are themselves bad actors and should be treated as such How is leaking some provably true secrets about a political party to the public bad in any way in a democracy?

There are responsible and irresponsible ways to dump this kind of info. Both result in the public learning what it is entitled to know. (All such secrets are bad of course and should be brought to light.) For instance, Assange has failed to scrub irrelevant personally identifying information from releases in the past which have resulted in uninvolved non-public civilians getting doxxed. All this does is allow oppressive regimes like the current US government more evidence to make the act of leaking even harder. Assange is bad for freedom of information in the current social order because he’s a very convenient story for people who want secrets to remain secrets.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#504

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The question is whether WL has passively (or worse, actively) allowed its position as a conduit of information to be leveraged by malevolent actors to shape (or distort) the truth? Obviously leaks that reveal actual wrongdoing are an unalloyed good. When the leaks that merely provide voyeuristic windows into the routine business of institutions (e.g. the diplomatic cables), the social value of the visibility becomes…

If by American and Western interests, you mean the values western society is built on, the answer should be pretty simple: national security is no excuse for secret courts, secret prosecutions and secret rulings. It's also to be expected that this society is going to provide more opportunities for leaks in the first place, as opposed to more totalitarian societies. Not that there isn't sufficient grounds for arguing…

Very well put.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#505

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Also wapo is pretty much all political propaganda of some sort now. It’s been getting worse by the day since Bezos bought it for some reason.

If the WP has been getting worse by the day, you're in luck! Because the article is from 2013, and must therefore be excellent.

True.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha awesome. Good to hear the other side :) I'm wondering why the downvotes though? Do we not understand that we inhabit bubbles?

Yeah but people get upset when you point the fact out to them, sometimes. Bubbles are what OTHER people inhabit, see. We're all special and unique free-thinkers immune to unconscious biases. Or something.

yeah, I'm seeing opportunity here... who wants a Bubble Buddy?... someone from a diagrammatically opposite bubble from you, so you can see how the other half think

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#507

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Bin Laden was indicted in 1998 for multiple capital crimes. His co-conspirators were convicted. The Taliban refused to extradite bin Laden and the UN Security Council responded with sanctions (e.g. Security Council resolution 1267).

There was no compulsion to comply since the charges were filed ( under seal ) in New York state and there was no extradition agreement with Afghanistan. Despite that the Taliban had been in negotiation since 1998 and repeatedly offered to hand Bin Laden over to a third country. SCR1267 did not authorise military action. Everything you have written is true, yet misleading.

I didn't mean to imply that SCR1267 authorized military action and I don't think I did.

The Taliban were obliged by SCR1267 to turn over bin Laden. If they had intended to turn over bin Laden to a third country, they would have.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#508
post #315
post #283

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Assange is simply not an honest broker which is his one job. Even if you think the Chelsea Manning leak was valuable, what exactly was Assange's value add? The leaker was not protected. She was caught and prosecuted. The data was not protected. WikiLeaks was hacked and leaked all the raw data. The content was not shared in an objective way. Assange editorialized the content with his own opinions (ie Collateral Murder…

If this sort of assessment is the case against Assange (in terms of his character as a journalist), then I think he has a very strong case. > The leaker was not protected. She was caught and prosecuted. You're talking as if Assange or WikiLeaks disclosed the source. Are you suggesting that a journalist has a responsibility to protect a source unto the ends of the earth, even when that source openly and flatly confide…

Lamo gained Manning's trust by pointing to his donation to WikiLeaks that he himself leaked to WikiLeaks when WikiLeaks did an open CC on all previous donors in an email blast.

And the unredacted cables become public record because the encrypted cables intended for journalists only, ended up on bittorrent. The Guardian should not have published the key, but they did so believing that they had the only copy of the encrypted data and WikiLeaks had destroyed their copy rather than leaving it available on a public URL for an extended period.

The video of the rocket attack would have easily stood on it's own without Assange inserting his agenda.

None of that is necessarily inexcusable crimes, but they are critical mistakes related to the one thing WikiLeaks is supposed to be good for. Give Manning 99% of the credit for exposing the story.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#509

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DWS just stepped down for nothing. And Donna Brazile's just a liar I guess. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-b...

As usual, context is critical. By the end of the primary, DWS was a lightning rod of controversy. Hillary recognized DWS was an obstacle to the Bernie wing rallying behind her and so she made a deal with DWS to get her to step down without a fight. She wasn't "forced" out due to wrongdoing, it was purely a political move to put the primary fights to rest and look towards defeating Trump. Had DWS stayed and defended h…

> As usual, context is critical. By the end of the primary, DWS was a lightning rod of controversy. Hillary recognized DWS was an obstacle to the Bernie wing rallying behind her and so she made a deal with DWS to get her to step down without a fight. She wasn't "forced" out due to wrongdoing, it was purely a political move to put the primary fights to rest and look towards defeating Trump. Had DWS stayed and defended herself, that would have severely weakened party unity. In such cases, truth takes a back seat to reconciliation.

If DWS stepping down was a purely optics move, then why was she then immediately added as a campaign chair to the Clinton campaign, in probably what was the worst possible optics given the situation.

> Brazile's case is trickier. Taking everything she says at face value (which is a mistake)

"Let's just start off delegitimizing what she had to say, not because I have any evidence to contrary. I just don't like what she said."

> the main thing she demonstrated was that Hillary's campaign saved the DNC from bankruptcy before the primary by assuming its debt. Hillary (reasonably) put some controls on the DNC's finances in response to the mismanagement. Brazile had no evidence, nor did she claim that Hillary or anyone directed the DNC to act against Bernie. Besides, with the unfiltered look into the DNCs emails and Hillary's campaign's emails, you would expect to see mountains of evidence of Hillary manipulating the DNC against Bernie. But there was no such evidence whatsoever.

> The other issue is the fundraising agreement that combined DNC-raised money with Hillary campaign money. But the fundraising agreement was standard and Bernie's campaign had the opportunity to sign the same fundraising agreement but declined.

You fundamentally misunderstood the scandal it seems. What Brazile revealed was the full extent of the issues with the Hillary Victory Fund, and why that happened. These aren't two different issues.

The way the HVF worked was as a way to subvert maximum donor limits. You as a donor can normally only donate $2,700 to a campaign. Instead the HVF allowed you to donate simultaneously to each of the 50 state's individual DNC parties, who then immediately donate that money to the national DNC, who then immediately donated that money to the Clinton campaign. Yes the same deal was available to the Sanders campaign, in that they were also essientially allowed to donate ~$100 to the Clinton campaign for every dollar they raised. Yes, the setup was that all VF money was to make it's way to the Clinton campaign. I wonder why they didn't take that wonderful offer.

Nothing about that was standard. This setup of giving VF money during the primary had never previously happened, was against internal bylaws, and is the main reason why we lost the house so bad. She had been pilfering funding for down ticket races in order to fund the primary campaign.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#510
post #492

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OK, there is evidence that Assange sold the broadcast rights of a show to a Russian controlled news organization. Do you think that Jesse Ventura should also be prosecuted?

I don't think Assange should be prosecuted for appearing on Russian state TV. (Does anyone?) While it may be technically true to say that he "sold the rights" to Russia Today, that's arguably a little misleading, as the show first aired on RT, and RT had exclusive initial rights to it.

>I don't think Assange should be prosecuted for appearing on Russian state TV. (Does anyone?

People use his television show to claim he's a paid operative of Russia. The same narrative can be made of Ventura, and any reason Assange should be prosecuted but not Ventura seems sketchy.

>While it may be technically true to say that he "sold the rights" to Russia Today, that's arguably a little misleading, as the show first aired on RT, and RT had exclusive initial rights to it.

They bought the initial rights in several languages, not exclusive, but he did not make the show for RT. That's a fairly clear distinction.

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