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Germany plans €3B in AI investments

reuters.com

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Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#151

Post by StreamBright »

shemtovo wrote: post #142
woodpanel wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bavaria as a whole, it is incredibly racist Do you mind stating some sources for that (and no, the conservative party ruling there for the last 70 years doesn't count)?

Personal experiences. Trust this middle eastern right here.

Great anecdotal experience. Now have a look at the wikipedia facts:

In July 2017, Munich had 1.42 million inhabitants; 421,832 foreign nationals resided in the city as of 31.12.2017 with 50.7% of these residents being citizens of EU member states, and 25.2% citizens in European states not in the EU (including Russia and Turkey).[16] The largest groups of foreign nationals were Turks (39,204), Croats (33,177), Italians (27,340), Greeks (27,117), Poles (27,945), Austrians (21,944), and Romanians (18,085).

The largest foreign resident groups by 31.12.2017[17]

Turkey 37,998

Croatia 36,655

Italy 27,060

Greece 26,360

Austria 20,990

Poland 19,456

Bosnia and Herzegovina 18,987

Romania 17,415

Serbia 13,758

Iraq 12,124

Bulgaria 12,035

Kosovo 11,114

France 9,983

Hungary 8,621

Spain 8,614

Russia 8,603

China 7,624

India 7,440

Afghanistan 7,234

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich#Demographics

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#152

Post by chimeracoder »

StreamBright wrote: post #151
shemtovo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal experiences. Trust this middle eastern right here.

Great anecdotal experience. Now have a look at the wikipedia facts: In July 2017, Munich had 1.42 million inhabitants; 421,832 foreign nationals resided in the city as of 31.12.2017 with 50.7% of these residents being citizens of EU member states, and 25.2% citizens in European states not in the EU (including Russia and Turkey).[16] The largest groups of foreign nationals were Turks (39,204), Croats (33,177), Italian…

I'm not sure what you think you're trying to prove with those numbers. Aside from the fact that nationality and race are not the same thing and cannot be conflated in this context, those numbers don't mean anything.

40% of people from Mississippi are black. That doesn't mean that they don't face serious racism in Mississippi, from everyday life to their own elected officials.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#153

Post by chimeracoder »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #144
chimeracoder wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks. If this is what you think is remotely relevant in a conversation about a "diverse environment", I'm not sure what more can be said.

My point was that diversity is more than race - it can be language, religion, politics, gender, and yes even cuisine. Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.”

> Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.”

Yeah, so... that's a really offensive thing to say.

I know you don't live there, but if you're trying to prove that Munich is both ethnically diverse and not a place where Arab and Muslim people experience significant racism (which are two separate points), you really could not be hurting your own case any more.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#154

Post by poulsbohemian »

chimeracoder wrote: post #153
poulsbohemian wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that diversity is more than race - it can be language, religion, politics, gender, and yes even cuisine. Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.”

> Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.” Yeah, so... that's a really offensive thing to say. I know you don't live there, but if you're trying to prove that Munich is both ethnically diverse and not a place where Arab and Muslim people experience significant racism (which are two separate points), you really could not be hurting you…

Look, my own experiences are that Bavaria is like the American South - politically conservative, racist, xenophobic. Even as a white, straight, German-speaking male I have had some scary experiences there. By your commentary, I gather perhaps you have perhaps been a target of racism, which is of course incredibly disappointing. The rise of right-wing, xenophobic groups with the obvious history of 20th century Germany is shocking.

That said, none of my previous comments above were commentary on Munich. If you'd read carefully, my original statement was that there can be remarkable diversity even in a small geographic area, where I attempted to give examples of diversity than extend beyond race. The world is a richer place when we have a mix of gender, religion, language, culture, politics, and thought, and yes too, the wonderful spectrum of skin tones, eye color, hair, etc.

I also pointed out that lumping the United States together is a common fallacy. Case in point - you live in New York, I live on the West coast, and these two areas have very different cultural practices in the large, before we start talking about sub-cultures. I'd tell a great joke about the difference between the west coast and east coast, but you'd likely find reason to take offense at it as well, which ironically is the gist of the joke.

My quote about hummus came from a documentary on the history of the middle east conflict, where I have also heard similar statements made by Israelis I have known personally. One of the wonderful things about diversity is that for open minded people, we can seek areas of common ground in our diversity, and frankly food has been a way to break down barriers between people, for like, centuries perhaps millennia.

So hey, you want to take offense because you like being offended, enjoy.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#155

Post by natorion »

outside1234 wrote: post #38
_match wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> When has that ever not worked out in our favor? Would you explain a little more? I'm ignorant about the history of German government investment in IT. But here in America, federal investment has helped ignite new industries. And as a data science engineer, I'd love to see more German code.

German firms (like Deutsche Telekom) have a ton of redundant jobs because of their inability to make needed structural changes because of the work councils and labor laws. This is why firms like Google are hiring in Switzerland and the United Kingdom instead of France and Germany.

Google in Germany is hiring quite alright.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#156

Post by StreamBright »

chimeracoder wrote: post #152
StreamBright wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great anecdotal experience. Now have a look at the wikipedia facts: In July 2017, Munich had 1.42 million inhabitants; 421,832 foreign nationals resided in the city as of 31.12.2017 with 50.7% of these residents being citizens of EU member states, and 25.2% citizens in European states not in the EU (including Russia and Turkey).[16] The largest groups of foreign nationals were Turks (39,204), Croats (33,177), Italian…

I'm not sure what you think you're trying to prove with those numbers. Aside from the fact that nationality and race are not the same thing and cannot be conflated in this context, those numbers don't mean anything. 40% of people from Mississippi are black. That doesn't mean that they don't face serious racism in Mississippi, from everyday life to their own elected officials.

The amount of immigrants in any environment is a great indication if people are racist or not.

Blacks are not immigrants in Mississippi, they did not need to make a decision to move to a new country. If Bavarians are so racist how come we have so many immigrants in Munich?

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#157

Post by tomp »

iagooar wrote: post #146
tomp wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for including the actual salary. It annoys me when companies say “extremely competitive compensation” but then you realize it’s like 50k (in London).

In my experience, not including the salary is a sign of weakness of a company. Why would you not include it, if it wasn't that you're afraid your salary is not fair? Or is it that people at your company would want to get a raise (they probably deserve) if they saw what you're willing to pay? In any case: I'm huge fan of transparent job postings and believe that they are a net positive for both sides.

I think most commonly it’s just a game, they don’t want to be the first to say a number because that sets a minimum salary, otherwise they might get someone clueless who’d be willing to take the job for less.. Unfortunately that’s like 99% of the companies!

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#158

Post by chimeracoder »

StreamBright wrote: post #156
chimeracoder wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you think you're trying to prove with those numbers. Aside from the fact that nationality and race are not the same thing and cannot be conflated in this context, those numbers don't mean anything. 40% of people from Mississippi are black. That doesn't mean that they don't face serious racism in Mississippi, from everyday life to their own elected officials.

The amount of immigrants in any environment is a great indication if people are racist or not. Blacks are not immigrants in Mississippi, they did not need to make a decision to move to a new country. If Bavarians are so racist how come we have so many immigrants in Munich?

> The amount of immigrants in any environment is a great indication if people are racist or not.

No, it's not at all. There are plenty of highly racist and toxic places where people still immigrate despite the racism, for other reasons. That doesn't negate the racism.

> If Bavarians are so racist how come we have so many immigrants in Munich?

"If Bavarians are so racist against Arabs and so Islamophobic, why are there so many Turks, Croatians, Italians, Greeks, Poles, and Romanians in Munich?"

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#159

Post by gnulinux »

woodpanel wrote: post #135
gnulinux wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but this is such bullshit. Not only in the Bay Area, but in Seattle, Boston, NYC etc... 6 figures is definitely NOT expected only from FAANGs. Any startup paying less than 90/100k to juniors, 150/200k to seniors won't find any engineers. FAANGs pay 200 to 300k. My graduating class last May had $105k average salary in the Bay Area and for me finding a 6 figure job wasn't even that hard. It's a bit ridiculous to…

I'm sorry, but comparing just the gross pay between EU and US is superficial at best. (Taking Germany as an example, single, no kids) If you're offered say 100k in Germany - due to heavy tax-burden and social security costs - you will get less than 60k net. But what is hidden from your paycheck is that the company has to double your social security. So in reality you're getting paid 115k. If you make more than 250k,…

Well as I said, in the US if you have an engineering/CS/math etc degree from a reasonably good uni and want to work in tech, finding a 6 figure job in a major city stratight-outta-college is not only easy but also is the norm. Whereas looking at glassdoor expecting a 100k job straight-outta-college in Berlin is pretty much impossible, you better expect half of that compensation, and even then there is a chance to not find a job. So your math is unnecessary. Especially the wealth tax part. I can't even see 250k compensations for engineers, say, in Berlin even for senior engineers.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#160

Post by dmix »

rsp1984 wrote: post #25

The problem is not a lack of funds. The problem is bureaucracy and a lack of startup infrastructure. My feeling is that the people in charge have absolutely no effing clue about how to most efficiently deploy this money so they will do what sounds good on paper but will have 0 effect in reality. If it goes how it usually goes the largest part of this money will likely to to universities and other research institution…

> The bureaucratic hurdles and time frames are typically way too large for most capital constrained nimble startups who need to move fast.

Nailed it. Canada has wasted hundreds of millions investing in "startups" and it all ends up going to ex-corporate suits from some megacorp (IBM, Blackberry/RIM, etc, or even non-tech etc) who know how to game the system. That and wasted on over priced real estate projects like MARs in Toronto.

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