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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#461

Post by Simon_says »

awakeasleep wrote: post #285
mcrad wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: Nike's mission is to do everything possible to expand human potential. https://www.economist.com/business/2018/08/02/mission-implau...

My friend was contracted to do some marketing for Frito-Lay and according to the team that hired them, Frito Lay's mission was to capture the 30% of non-prepackaged food eaten by Americans. Their public mission statement is a bit more innocuous: At Frito-Lay, delighting our consumers is job No. 1. To us, that means putting consumers first in every decision we make - from the quality and care that goes into making our…

What? Don't they exclusively make prepackaged food?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#462

Post by throw2016 »

There is a great dissonance between what people claim and what they do and without bridging these gaps discussions on ethical issues become useless.

For instance commentators here may stridently criticize Facebook and others and yet if they were in Zuckerberg or Sandberg's position may do no differently. It's techies who went to town about liberty and freedom and now are building the most invasive and creepy surveillance systems. This is perhaps the biggest betrayal of our generation.

There are always excuses but if you cannot stick to stated principles its your responsibility to examine yourself and not make claims you will not follow through in circumstances of power.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#463

Post by ThomPete »

This will all change once these people get into the real world.

It's easy to have high morals when you don't have to make your own living yet.

This looks like a classic NYT hit piece which can be lumped together with the other articles they are firing against FB.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#464

Post by TulliusCicero »

1stcity3rdcoast wrote: post #323
crunchlibrarian wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like something a stoned frat boy would come up with as their first attempt at a mission statement.

Sure, but is it wrong?

I dunno about wrong, but it's too vague to be useful.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#465

Post by wild_preference »

tropdrop wrote: post #284
pathseeker wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The free market is not fair, and it is not a meritocracy. It's fair, but not based on effort like people mistakenly think it should be. It's silly to think "I should be paid X because it was really hard work" or to try to interfere with the market to force that price. A big part of the issue is ignorance of economics among most of the population. People don't realize they are always participating in markets, even wh…

>So what? Their medical degree obvious isn't qualifying them to be a doctor in the new country. I never understood this, even while in the medical industry myself. Perhaps this might be a little true for an immigrant from Venezuela with a medical degree. But for an immigrant from England, Why not?

You can't even do a tiny lateral transfer in the US medical industry without reschooling, so how would it work with foreign degrees?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#466

Post by TulliusCicero »

gpm wrote: post #28
yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

I think that's unlikely. As a moderator of r/cscareerquestions, I've heard way more people talk about moral qualms when it comes to working at defense contractors than Facebook/Google, but the working conditions and pay at the former are substantially worse than at the latter.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#467

Post by TulliusCicero »

pathseeker wrote: post #265
AlexandrB wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of post-facto justification for poor working conditions or wages needs a name, so it can be dismissed out of hand. It seems to assume that the market is “fair” and getting poor pay must be justified by some other factor about the job. In reality, there are plenty of jobs that have garbage pay and suck. As well as jobs that are both lucrative and “easy”. Consider the average CEO: not the exceptional visionar…

>The free market is not fair, and it is not a meritocracy. It's fair, but not based on effort like people mistakenly think it should be. It's silly to think "I should be paid X because it was really hard work" or to try to interfere with the market to force that price. A big part of the issue is ignorance of economics among most of the population. People don't realize they are always participating in markets, even wh…

The market isn't really fair or unfair. It's more like "a-fair", where fairness doesn't really factor into it.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#468

Post by MrTonyD »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #454
thoughtexplorer wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly, but not always. Patagonia seems to genuinely follow their mission statement: "Build the best product, cause no unnecessary harm, use business to inspire and implement solutions to the environmental crisis." https://www.patagonia.com/company-info.html

By making clothes out of plastic?

They make clothes out of plastic in order to recycle. It is a conscious choice they make. (I read the book by the founder.) Patagonia may be the only company I trust.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#469

Post by TulliusCicero »

techelitism wrote: post #326
gxigzigxigxi wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Googler, Facebook would certainly be a place I would consider if I wasn’t at google. You’re right, of course, that it is a better than fine employer.

What do you think of Microsoft, Amazon, and Apple? Are they worthy of your talents as well?

They're good companies, but not as nice to work for as Google and Facebook.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#470

Post by gaius »

rifung wrote: post #48

Is it weird that when reading this I just think how nice it must be to be able to turn down such a high paying job when many people are just trying to make ends meet? Don't get me wrong I am happy now working at Google but I am sure I would have been elated to get a job at FB earlier in my career.

How do you know when someone works at Google? They’ll tell you...
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